Navy To Charge Ex-Destroyer Commanders With Negligent Homicide

[Spear Dane]

This makes me a sad panda. How did we ever come to have such **** poor leadership in the USN?

US Navy To Charge Ex-Destroyer Commanders With Negligent Homicide Over Deadly Collisions (Updated) - The Drive

 

[JettaKnight]

Props for the Sad Panda reference, but this (IMHO) is far too serious.

I posted this in another thread, but This American Life ran an episode that included this about human error and it seems to me (admittedly the guy w/ little military experience), that the culture of, "you sleep when your dead" is hard to overcome, and reality is often skewed by perception that one can overcome human limits through sheer will. Couple that with the Navy's declining enlistment, and tragedy ensues.


TL/DR: culture is really hard to change.

 

[Spear Dane]

What do you mean by far too serious? The charges? Sheer will absolutely can overcome normal human limits. The whole purpose of BUD/S, the Q Course, Ranger Selection course, etc is to find people that can push through via sheer force of will. Granted there are ultimate limits but they are far beyond what most people think.

 

[KellyinAvon]

What do you mean by far too serious? The charges? Sheer will absolutely can overcome normal human limits. The whole purpose of BUD/S, the Q Course, Ranger Selection course, etc is to find people that can push through via sheer force of will. Granted there are ultimate limits but they are far beyond what most people think.

There's a reason SEALs and Rangers are called "elite", it's because it's true. Hopefully this leads to real change.

 

[Birds Away]

This culture has existed within the Navy for many decades. It's always the same. Push people to the breaking point while always demanding more, more and more. I don't know how many times in my career I have seen people literally asleep on their feet at 3am while standing watch. Admitting fatigue is a sign of weakness and is not tolerated in many cases. Then, when men ultimately fail due to fatigue the Navy is only too happy to place the blame on the commanding officers. I was surprised that, in this case, some admirals were mildly punished. That just tells me that the top brass in the Pentagon knew that the cat was out of the bag and that they wouldn't be able to simply blame the CO's and get away with it. I've served under a lot of great officers in the surface community in the Navy but few of them rose above Commander in rank. I've met a lot of surface Navy officers that were truly despicable human beings. Those are the ones who always got promoted.

 

[HoughMade]

What do you mean by far too serious?...

I think he was referring to using the "sad panda" reference while discussing the death of 17 sailors.

 

[JettaKnight]

I think he was referring to using the "sad panda" reference while discussing the death of 17 sailors.

THIS.

 

[actaeon277]

Human limits can be stretched by "practice" not "perception".

Yes, people need more sleep. I lived that life.

But how do you achieve it? Put more people on the ship?
How do you do that? People are already shoehorned in. When designing space, people are last. Engineering, weapons, sensors, communications.. pretty much EVERYTHING else has priority.

Then, shrink the navy, yet maintain the same responsibilities? The navy can't say NO. Remember, the military is subservient to civilian rule. So why not go after some civilians for this?

How about looking at the HUGE numbers of commanders relieved, in the last decade.

 

[actaeon277]

https://news.usni.org/2018/06/20/na...eering-control-systems-simpler-systems-needed

 

[Trigger Time]

https://news.usni.org/2018/06/20/na...eering-control-systems-simpler-systems-needed

Well in 10 years the navy may actualy start taking the advice of his findings and implement a 1 size fits all nav system. ??
It just seems like we have beaurocracy'd ourselves into failure on so many levels in this country. It takes an executive order to switch who we buy a pen off of if we can get it $5 cheaper across the street so to speak. Where as us normal people would just drive to the new store.
Pur politicians have created so many laws and rules within our government that our government is moving so slow and sucking but despite the attempted sabotage by idiots it still works and we have the best country in the world. Now imagine how great it would be if we actualy fixed it and untied lady libertys hands.

 

[churchmouse]

Well in 10 years the navy may actualy start taking the advice of his findings and implement a 1 size fits all nav system. ??
It just seems like we have beaurocracy'd ourselves into failure on so many levels in this country. It takes an executive order to switch who we buy a pen off of if we can get it $5 cheaper across the street so to speak. Where as us normal people would just drive to the new store.
Pur politicians have created so many laws and rules within our government that our government is moving so slow and sucking but despite the attempted sabotage by idiots it still works and we have the best country in the world. Now imagine how great it would be if we actualy fixed it and untied lady libertys hands.

There is so much corruption involved. At all levels. Way the hell to many people. Way to many.