filling voids before laying down backer board?

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  • Cameramonkey

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    need to redo the tile in our bathroom. Like fools we didnt use cement boards and the tiles cracked.

    Now I have a differrent problem. On top of the sub floor it looks like they laid down paneling or a 1/8" luan and stapled it to the sub floor before putting down the rolled vinyl. About 2" before you get to the tub that luan stops.


    What can I put down to level the floor that last 2-3" Im sure the unsupported backer wont hold up with its edge floating in the air. Sanded grout?
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Self leveling concrete.

    Thought of that but it is counterintuitive since its sitting on wood. The mortar idea only made sense since it was discussed earlier about putting it under a tub before installing it for support.
     
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    Luan will absorb any moisture present so I'd pull it up.

    I just went through this a few months ago when we had hardwoods put down on the entire first floor. I took the luan up. It wasn't fun but at least I know it's done right.
     

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    I guess I don't understand. Self leveling concrete can be used on wood. Or I'm not understanding what the problem is...
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

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    When I've done cement backer under tile floor, I always used the same thinset I planned to use between the cement backer and the tile. If the luan is firmly attached, I'd probably leave it. You might be able to put a little more thinset on the OSB to support the backer board.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    I guess I don't understand. Self leveling concrete can be used on wood. Or I'm not understanding what the problem is...

    I guess Im just overthinking. You are right. Plan is to level the floor, lay down cement backer, and lay ceramic on top of it. Then I will FINALLY be done with this project that I didnt want to do in the first place. (had to when the crap started leaking; first the tub, then the sink. Tile was already planned)

    And I dont see luan absorbing any more water than 80s plywood. :dunno: In theory this will be sealed by a layer of backerboard and tile.

    And when I took up the luan in the kitchen it was the biggest PITA ever. Those shards are stupid sharp. Was going through my mechanics gloves. I had to resort to welders gloves to finish. I dont have the room to run the floor scraper in that room so its best to just seal it under the backer and move on.

    Thanks guys, INGO never fails to come to the rescue. Y'all rock.
     

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    Here's what I would do (similar to GFGT)...

    Large gaps would get self leveling concrete. Then thinset between sub floor and hardi board. Then thinset and tile. Then epoxy grout.

    Also, you need to check your deflection. Most of the time, that's what causes your joints to crack. Hold on, I'll try to find the calculator.

    EDIT - here you go. The Amazing John Bridge Forums Deflect-O-Lator :-)
     

    RobbyMaQ

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    Is self leveling 'thinset' the concrete stuff you guys are referring to? I guess I never realized it was a concrete product. I figured it was a synthetic blend of something
     

    Cameramonkey

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    One more question. How thick? Does it matter what thickness backer board I use? I assume 1/4" is too thin and will allow flexing and cause cracks in the tile. .42"? .5"? I'm seeing conflicting advice online. Some saying .5 is only for walls, and .25 is fine, Others saying .25 is only for laying over existing rigid tile.

    To refresh, this will either go on floated luan over sub floor, or directly to the sub floor, depending on how much of a glutton for punishment I am. That luan is attached with a metric crap ton of staples (every 1-2") and is 30 years old, so its a *****, and when it does come loose, it doesnt come up in sections. It comes up in thin, dangerously sharp splintery layers that go right through mechanics gloves. (yes, Ive even had it come through the leather)
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

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    I'd prefer to not have the extra height. That would mean Id need to take it down to the subfloor. Thats gonna be most of a day itself removing that luan.

    Been there, done that. Seems like I rented a motorized floor scraper to do mine. We're only talking a 1/4" swing. What do you have in the way if the floor comes up that much?
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

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    My feet. That would make a slight step-up from the hall to the bath. I'll be tripping. LOL

    Heh! I've got that from my hallway to the powder room. I put a threshold at the doorway and I've never even stubbed my toe on it. It goes from laminate floor to the concrete backer+thin set+ceramic tile powder room floor and it's really been no problem.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    This is the crazy Im dealing with. This is the view of the mass of staples from below the subfloor. :faint:

    IMG_4142_sm.JPG


    I might nip them from below to make life at least a little easier.
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

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    Wow. I don't remember looking at mine before I started but that does seem like they gave you your money's worth with the staples.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Tried a quick test before kids went to bed. My dremel takes less than 5 seconds each to cut them off. Probably 10 mins tops to take them all out.

    Just got to remember to wear gloves and long sleeves. Its like hot brass raining down.
     
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