Mechanic Billing Question

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  • voidsherpa

    Shooter
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    Jul 16, 2015
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    So my father took his car in to have the head-gasket replaced. Quoted at 1200-1300. Whoever the shop sent the head to for resurfacing did more work (valves or something, not sure) and there was no communication. 2 weeks later and cars done, 2k'ish total now. My fathers not elderly, but he's getting up there. Trying to make sure he's not getting taken advantage of. I take strong issue with the lack of communication and a +50% price increase without any form of approval. I'm running him to pick it up tomorrow. Intend to get him an itemized invoice and really question it (I'm annoyed). Whats the word on itemized invoices in IN, do they have to supply one? google searching only comes up that it is required in MI. I understand stuff gets marked up by the mechanic, but I don't understand a $700 jump without approval/communication.
     

    Dead Duck

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    Wow-
    Rates have definitely gone up since my head work was last done.
    I think it was southside near 10th by the truckstop. 20 bucks same day turnaround. Communication was bad then too, I could hardly understand what she was saying at all. :rolleyes:
     

    thunderchicken

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    Well yeah that is a big price increase without communicating with the customer. I would like to think that the shop had consulted the machine shop for pricing before contacting the customer with the estimate.
    You are right to ask questions and you should ask for an itemized invoice. Most shops will print one off without any issue. No doubt they will have a reason to justify the additional expense. If I were you, I would only deal with the Service manager and stress to them that a nearly 50% price increase over the quote is bad for business and unethical to be that far off the estimate without contacting the customer. I would push for them to eat the additional charges...good chance they won't budge but it's worth a shot.
    Good luck
     

    voidsherpa

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    Wow-
    Rates have defiantly gone up since my head work was last done.

    I'd say it's on the high side, but not unreasonable. I take issue with the lack of communication on a %50+ price increase. Hell it's not like they didn't have time to call either, it was supposed to be done 2-3 days but apparently they were passing around the flu and that's why it's now 2 weeks to the date.
     

    Mr Evilwrench

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    Head gasket on my 94 chicken was 1200 a few years ago, so your price there is within reason. If it hadn't been so damn cold out I would have taped it up and scraped them off with a knife myself. What I see as inexcusable here is the machine shop doing the surfacing, just up and did other stuff without even involving the customer, never mind asking permission. I think you have grounds for small claims court if you wind up in a wiener measuring contest after you've told the machine shop he just did your valves for you free of charge.

    I took my sister in law's cat in to be emasculated (yeah, I know, but you clean that mess up), and I got the call to pick him up, and the bill was like $180. Turning him into a neut was all of about $30, but somehow a declaw was added to the order somewhere along the line. I informed them in no uncertain terms I was not paying for that. Poor kid couldn't sit down, couldn't stand up.
     

    voidsherpa

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    What I see as inexcusable here is the machine shop doing the surfacing, just up and did other stuff without even involving the customer, never mind asking permission.

    Well, again it went car owner --> mechanic --> machine shop. No idea what transpired between the mechanic and the machine shop. I'm assuming the head machining was included in the original quote, if not (no idea why that wouldn't be included), there should have been contact before sending it to a 3rd party. So beyond that it'll be interesting what the $700-800 worth of work the machine shop actually did (Since that number shouldn't include the resurfacing), cause that also seems excessive.
     

    thunderchicken

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    Well, again it went car owner --> mechanic --> machine shop. No idea what transpired between the mechanic and the machine shop. I'm assuming the head machining was included in the original quote, if not (no idea why that wouldn't be included), there should have been contact before sending it to a 3rd party. So beyond that it'll be interesting what the $700-800 worth of work the machine shop actually did (Since that number shouldn't include the resurfacing), cause that also seems excessive.

    $700-$800 is a whole lotta cabbage for a machine shop to surface a pair of cylinder heads...even if the did a valve grind/lap valves, valve seals. Something just doesn't make sense.

    What kind of car/ engine are we talking about here?
     

    GLOCKMAN23C

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    Feb 8, 2009
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    So my father took his car in to have the head-gasket replaced. Quoted at 1200-1300. Whoever the shop sent the head to for resurfacing did more work (valves or something, not sure) and there was no communication. 2 weeks later and cars done, 2k'ish total now. My fathers not elderly, but he's getting up there. Trying to make sure he's not getting taken advantage of. I take strong issue with the lack of communication and a +50% price increase without any form of approval. I'm running him to pick it up tomorrow. Intend to get him an itemized invoice and really question it (I'm annoyed). Whats the word on itemized invoices in IN, do they have to supply one? google searching only comes up that it is required in MI. I understand stuff gets marked up by the mechanic, but I don't understand a $700 jump without approval/communication.

    They should not have done that, without prior authorization. If it was done to me, I would not be paying for any more than the original eastimate.
     

    Butch627

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    My .02 When diagnosing top end problems a lot of the time problems don't become apparent until the process is underway. Sometimes for every step you take forward you find another new issue and the price adds up. Was your dad told it would probably be 1200 and he only gave the ok for that much or was he told it could be more and he said to just fix it? I would ask for an itemized bill of what was done and if the cost can be justified move on with a new top end. If your dad was quoted 1200 and then told it would be more when everything was apart would he have then said no, collected all the pieces and taken everything home? IIRC it cost around 1600 to have the head on my honda resurfaced with a valve job a few years ago.
     

    Nazgul

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    Retired from a supervisors position in industrial equipment, mainly large forklifts. We never had extra work done without customer authorization. Always stopped the work until we talked to the customer, re-quoted the repair and had it SIGNED.

    Mainly so they knew exactly what had to be done and we had explored all the options with them. Customer service was a big deal.

    Running over on repairs happened, we always ate the difference if it was our fault. Never gave a verbal quote , always in writing. Verbal prices were too easy to be disputed by us or the customer.

    If this had happened with one of the repairs I was responsible for, my behind would have been in front of my bosses the next morning to explain it.

    You can refuse to pay it , the value of getting a written quote for the repair. May be able to negotiate it down, all good shops will work with you.

    Don
     

    voidsherpa

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    My .02 When diagnosing top end problems a lot of the time problems don't become apparent until the process is underway. Sometimes for every step you take forward you find another new issue and the price adds up. Was your dad told it would probably be 1200 and he only gave the ok for that much or was he told it could be more and he said to just fix it? I would ask for an itemized bill of what was done and if the cost can be justified move on with a new top end. If your dad was quoted 1200 and then told it would be more when everything was apart would he have then said no, collected all the pieces and taken everything home?

    Car went in because it was leaking oil, a decent amount, apparently from the head-gasket. So I'd say slapping a new head-gasket on it and putting it back together would have been a viable solution.
     

    eldirector

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    I've had this happen more than once. Drop car off and receive a written quote. Get a call a while later that is is complete, but now with a MUCH higher amount. I have NEVER paid that higher amount. Always ask to see the written approvals. Get the phone numbers they called, and the names that gave them approval. In every case (for me), they have never been able to produce anything. Or, in once case, lied that they called. The number they gave was for my cell phone. I pulled it out and showed them the call log for the day. There number was not on it.

    Sometime it is a scam. They do extra "required" work, figuring you will just pay it. Sometimes it is just idiocy, though. The mechanic did what he thought he needed to do, but just never told the front office.
     

    bocefus78

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    Agree with the rest. No call for the additional charges means I'm not paying it. If it was ten percent more or something, yeah, I'll pay that. But not $700 more on a $1200 bill. No freaking way.
     

    russc2542

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    When I worked in a shop in IL, there was a sign behind the service desk saying state saw required approval before going over 10% more than the initial quote.Then again, they may have glossed over "$1200 if it goes well but could be more if it needs it" buried in a bigger conversation that dad didn't catch.

    Back when I did work in the shop, even when people said "just fix it, I don't care" regarding estimates increasing I always felt really sh***y if I didn't call them for more than a few bucks increase.
     

    Woobie

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    When I worked in a shop in IL, there was a sign behind the service desk saying state saw required approval before going over 10% more than the initial quote.Then again, they may have glossed over "$1200 if it goes well but could be more if it needs it" buried in a bigger conversation that dad didn't catch.

    Back when I did work in the shop, even when people said "just fix it, I don't care" regarding estimates increasing I always felt really sh***y if I didn't call them for more than a few bucks increase.

    It is really common to find extra problems when working on a customer's car, and I always felt responsible to inform them. But I never did any work without explicit customer approval.
     

    CTC B4Z

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    So let's put it this way.... If they had called, engines in pieces, said we need an ok for x amount cause all your guides are bad and need to be replaced...

    Would you have pulled the car out of the shop in pieces and taken it somewhere else for the same thing?
     

    Woobie

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    Car went in because it was leaking oil, a decent amount, apparently from the head-gasket. So I'd say slapping a new head-gasket on it and putting it back together would have been a viable solution.

    That is sometimes, but not always, possible with steel heads. But most heads are aluminum these days. With all the heating/cooling cycles that heads go through, warpage is bound to happen, particularly in aluminum. They have to be ground back down to flat before they can be reinstalled.
     

    Woobie

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    So let's put it this way.... If they had called, engines in pieces, said we need an ok for x amount cause all your guides are bad and need to be replaced...

    Would you have pulled the car out of the shop in pieces and taken it somewhere else for the same thing?

    Or just paid for a used engine. We did a lot of that. We had a good relationship with a junk yard, and we would get used low mileage engines from cars that had been rear ended. It was cheaper for the customer and faster to just R&R the engine, instead of tearing off the heads, finding all kinds of problems, having those heads machines or buying new heads outright. We had problems with a few store bought reman engines, but never a solid used one. And if we had, our junk dealer would replace an engine we had installed if it was faulty.

    Besides, the complete lack of courtesy of not getting customer approval before spending their hard earned money for them is just unacceptable.
     

    voidsherpa

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    That is sometimes, but not always, possible with steel heads. But most heads are aluminum these days. With all the heating/cooling cycles that heads go through, warpage is bound to happen, particularly in aluminum. They have to be ground back down to flat before they can be reinstalled.

    I would have been under the assumption that a shop doing a head gasket would resurface an alum head as a standard.
     

    CTC B4Z

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    Don't do much surfacing on aluminum heads. All my cast almost always have to be ground to the max though.

    Aluminum is an amazing material for heads. You can even get away with just using a scotch bring pad(hand only) on them sometimes if combustion leakage did not cause damage.

    My most common head job quote baselines at $5k and I've seen it go over $10k, of course with customer approval and some of them end up having us install a complete and running engine($16k&up).

    We don't know until then head is off, I've had to replace pistons and rods and that certainly wasn't in the quote.

    So does the shop hold some responsibility in calling for approval, yes. I believe OP should express this, but in the end, you were still going to get the work done.
     
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