Impossible: 7 Found Dead in mass shooting in Australia.

[MCgrease08]

Obviously 7 people being murdered, including children, is horrible. There aren't many details yet, so I'll reserve comment until more is known.

But this clearly contradicts the narrative about Australian style gun control eliminating mass shootings.

Hopefully this will at least open some people's eyes.

https://apnews.com/c8b0e018b50e4f07...Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=AP

 

[jrh84]

Crazy, innit? Not only in Australia, but in state (Western Australia) with the most restrictive firearms laws in the country!

I'm in Perth (about 2.5-3 hrs north of Margaret River where this happened) this year for work. I've been to Margaret River a few times, most recently in February for a long weekend, so I'm somewhat familiar with the area. It'll be interesting to see the gun control crowd spin this one after saying this sort of thing only happens in America. Either way, what a stupid, pointless tragedy.

 

[Cameramonkey]

FAKE NEWS!!!!!

 

[Kutnupe14]

Obviously 7 people being murdered, including children, is horrible. There aren't many details yet, so I'll reserve comment until more is known.

But this clearly contradicts the narrative about Australian style gun control eliminating mass shootings.

Hopefully this will at least open some people's eyes.

https://apnews.com/c8b0e018b50e4f07...Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=AP

I disagree with gun control, but this isn't the best argument. Nothing can ever be eliminated, only diminished. You can't say that their gun laws are useless and should be eliminated, because of this one instance, anymore than someone can say that illegal immigration laws are useless because illegals still enter the country.

My view of gun control is simple, and never changes: I don't care what criminals do, because criminals will always find away around law, but don't punish me by reducing my right to defend myself to the best of my ability, by whatever means I believe are best.

 

[cbhausen]

I disagree with gun control, but this isn't the best argument. Nothing can ever be eliminated, only diminished. You can't say that their gun laws are useless and should be eliminated, because of this one instance, anymore than someone can say that illegal immigration laws are useless because illegals still enter the country.

My view of gun control is simple, and never changes: I don't care what criminals do, because criminals will always find away around law, but don't punish me by reducing my right to defend myself to the best of my ability, by whatever means I believe are best.

Amen.

 

[ghitch75]

what?????......that couldn't happen there......there are no guns....

 

[Birds Away]

This is a tragedy and not something that should become a part of the gun debate.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Unpossible!! The Hildebeast said Australian gun control was something we needed to look at. It doesn't affect her since she has those SS agents ( you know, the ones being punished, that's why they are on her protection detail.)

 

[MCgrease08]

I disagree with gun control, but this isn't the best argument. Nothing can ever be eliminated, only diminished. You can't say that their gun laws are useless and should be eliminated, because of this one instance, anymore than someone can say that illegal immigration laws are useless because illegals still enter the country.

My view of gun control is simple, and never changes: I don't care what criminals do, because criminals will always find away around law, but don't punish me by reducing my right to defend myself to the best of my ability, by whatever means I believe are best.

No one has suggested that Australia should eliminate their gun laws.

You reinforced my point in the second paragraph of your comment. That's the crux of what I was trying to get to.

 

[actaeon277]

I've seen comments that, since Australia's last mass shooting was so long ago, their gun control laws must be better than ours.

I guess population never figured into that person's calculation.

 

[M67]

It's legal to own guns in Australia. A PITA yes, but legal

I doubt someone legal/qualified to own such a gun this person was not

 

[Sylvain]

I've seen comments that, since Australia's last mass shooting was so long ago, their gun control laws must be better than ours.

I guess population never figured into that person's calculation.

Mass shootings in the US and Australia are often compared but the two countries use different definitions of what is a mass shooting.

In the US it takes 4 people being shot (even just wounded) to be a mass shooting.
In Australia it takes at least 5 homicides with a firearm to be a mass shooting.
And they don't include the perpetrator in their count in Australia, which I believe they do in the US.

So if 4 people get killed, and a dozen wounded and the shooter kills himself... not a mass shooting in Australia (even though 17 people got shot).

If 3 people get wounded, then the shooter kills himself ... that's a mass shooting in the US.

You can't compare the two unless you use the same definition.

That's why anti-gun folks love to bring Australia low count of mass shootings.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Mass shootings in the US and Australia are often compared but the two countries use different definitions of what is a mass shooting.

In the US it takes 4 people being shot (even just wounded) to be a mass shooting.
In Australia it takes at least 5 homicides with a firearm to be a mass shooting.
And they don't include the perpetrator in their count in Australia, which I believe they do in the US.

So if 4 people get killed, and a dozen wounded and the shooter kills himself... not a mass shooting in Australia (even though 17 people got shot).

If 3 people get wounded, then the shooter kills himself ... that's a mass shooting in the US.

You can't compare the two unless you use the same definition.

That's why anti-gun folks love to bring Australia low count of mass shootings.

FBI doesnt count the shooter in the body count to qualify it.

However that doesnt stop the more recent gun grabbing groups from deviating from that methodology. There is one group, possibly Bloomberg's that uses the metric "at least 3 dead including the shooter". So a murder suicide love triangle would count as a mass shooting. Sorry, John catching his wife and his buddy in bed together, shooting them both and then shooting himself in the head is not a mass shooting. Its ridiculous how they are perverting the numbers to suit their agenda.

EDIT: This is the same group that skews school shooting stats by including shootings NEAR schools in their data. (drug deal gone bad on the sidewalk outside the school but none of the participants were students, bullet hits a school from an incident a block away was included, etc)

 

[Snapdragon]

I really hate it when someone takes a tragedy and turns it into "Neener neener, we were right."

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Evil always finds a way.

 

[Mark 1911]

I really hate it when someone takes a tragedy and turns it into "Neener neener, we were right."

It's not about turning a tragedy into something else. It is a tragedy, and there is nothing we can do to change that. The fact is that the tragedy happened despite the measures that were supposed to eliminate it. I think it is fair for those of us whose rights are constantly under siege, to point out that failure. It does not equate to disrespect, and I don't think the spirit it is given in is anything close to a "neener-neener". The error was in thinking that such a measure would eliminate such tragedies to begin with, and it would also be an error to let such measures remain in place when they were not the solution that they were made out to be in the first place, even at the cost of the freedom of law-abiding citizens. Not that there is one "magic-wand" solution, but gun confiscation certainly isn't a guarantee for Utopia either.

 

[Snapdragon]

The sarcasm of the "Impossible!" was, I believe, completely inappropriate, just as the sarcastic reaction has been when people have been murdered with knives instead of guns. I get the whole rights infringement thing, but I don't think that the deaths of others should be a platform for jokes or sarcasm about gun control.

 

[Mark 1911]

The sarcasm of the "Impossible!" was, I believe, completely inappropriate, just as the sarcastic reaction has been when people have been murdered with knives instead of guns. I get the whole rights infringement thing, but I don't think that the deaths of others should be a platform for jokes or sarcasm about gun control.

I respect that. Given the local audience, I think we're sympathetic. I don't think there was any disrespect intended to the victims. Yes, might choose to state it differently to a general audience. But I get the frustration level too.

 

[actaeon277]

Well, we used to wait and observe a period of time before saying anything.
But the media used that time to splash anti-gun stuff 24/7.

So maybe we're tired of that.

 

[actaeon277]

Oh, and the media accounts were that Australia gun control works.
So, we once again are responding.