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  1. #51
    Master Ggreen's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by flightsimmer View Post
    A- This aircraft was the third of four that I have owned and yes it was a Musketeer, a very nice looking one at that. It was in the deep
    south so I had to fly commercial to look at it. I spent the first day looking it over real close and reading through the logs and I called a
    friend who did a cursory AD check and compared that with the log books. I knew from the start that the engine was getting close to an overhaul, aren't they all. They fly them until their out of hours then sell them to avoid the cost, but I knew that from the start, engines are my thing, I rebuild them for a living. Had I checked or flown it at night I would have discovered those problems sooner.

    The next day after finding nothing glaringly wrong that I couldn't handle I made the purchase and flew it home, no problems.
    I still think it was a decent purchase price all things considered and I knew the engine was a stepchild but I was hoping to upgrade to a
    180 hp engine in the future, never got that far.

    B- The FAA requested or demanded (I don't remember which) a tear down of the engine while they were present so we set a day and time
    and they came out and watched. At that time they took possession of the cylinders and something else as evidence for prosecuting the
    company that did the supposed work and gave me a receipt for the parts as I recall. I thought they were going to assist me in getting my money back, WRONG! They had no interest in helping me, just the prosecution. They also took or made copy's of my paperwork from that company as evidence. I'm not 100% sure of all the details because it has been so long ago. My friends at the FBO kept an eye on what
    was going on I hope to watch out for my interest, they never deputed anything.

    C- I never discussed price or anything beyond a through inspection to find any problems at which point we would discuss fixing them. By the
    way, I had never heard of a maintenance contract for an annual inspection with a non-FBO, A&P-AI.
    There are a whole lot more things I could include but I don't want to get off track and end up writing a book here, it's been to long
    Musketeer makes sense with the engine overhaul problems, it's a real bastard model and spares just aren't there. I would have told the faa to kick rocks if they told me they wanted to watch me tear down a fresh engine, but most people wouldn't and comply with whatever nonsense the inspectors god complex comes up with.

    I always have a work order (mx contract) signed when I do private work. There are a ton of boilerplate ones online and it saves hurt feelings. Here is what I'm doing, here is where your airplane will park and here is my timeframe. Shady cheap IA's will jerk you around and you happened to see that first hand. Aviation is compromise whether in aerodynamics or cost of ownership, there is no such thing as an affordable middle class airplane, unless it is your only hobby. I have been flown around by people buying airplanes to do a prebuy, because they trust me and my experience wouldn't miss 24v electrical items in a 12v plane. That would have been full stop and I would have sent you straight back home and put you on a better buy. That kind of stuff happens 1 of 2 ways A. Shady cut rate non career A&P, B. Shady pilot looking to turn quick profits off of his storage unit full of salvaged airplane parts. You prove the point of the value of a good experienced A&P when you say you went through it in detail. Any number of A&P's would have rejected that aircraft no matter how good of a deal it was. AD compliance in the log is different than on the aircraft as well, I've seen an ad signed off in the book and gone out to the airplane to find the AD out of compliance. I generally charge 150 dollars a day plus travel and 75 dollar per diem. You would have been looking at a lot less wasted money by buying experience and honesty from a mechanic that has zero interest in the sellers side. Pilots buy paint and interior, A&P's buy quality airplanes that may need some cosmetic work.

    Overhaul time in a part 91 non flight training for hire aircraft are suggestions. And poor ones based not on fact but magical figures that engineers working for the fed come up with. I've seen 500 hour engines that needed an overhaul, and ive seen 5000 hour engines that have good compression and make power for days. I cannot understand why pilots and owners do not read Mike Busch's books and articles that cover this. Owners would rather have a low TSO than a quality running aircraft engine. It is a paradigm that boggles my mind. My job as an A&P is not to make up work, it's to save you money by doing it right the first time and keep your airplane in the air as safe and as much as possible. That is how you get return customers, and there are a lot of us.

    But your story plays out all over the internet and in airport diners. It is always blame the mechanic, blame the faa, but never take a look at what you did wrong. It's not fun to be wrong but it is important not to keep slamming legitiment professionals everytime you see a window because you made poor decisions. I've seen one of the best, most knowledgeable, skilled, talented, and honest IA's I've ever met get run completely out of business because a person was upset about him not pencil whipping an annual. The slander that pilot spewed at every airport in the area took an immediate effect, and the good customers kept their mouths shut and started get to old and broke down to pass medicals. I mean this guy was honest to a fault, he was great and slander destroyed him. Everything he had in his life was in that hangar shop and this broke a$$ pilots mean boys club shut him out completely. What a terrible asset that flying community lost. But he was replaced by a part timer who could do 10 annuals in a single weekend! For half the cost no less, now how many of those do you think really got checked out? Have you ever seen a trim cable turnbuckle get locked up on a rib? I have, and it was because the cable had so much slack that the turnbuckle migrated 6 feet from where it was supposed to be. The only reason that pilot walked away was because he had flown crop dusters his entire life and been through situations fighter pilots would wet themselves in.

    Sucks that you had to go to the school of hard knocks. But arrogance and machoism leads a lot of private inexperienced, even experienced ones, owners down these roads. A good A&P would have had a toolbox leanin conversation over a 6 pack at the end of a long day and explained in depth why no one should ever own a musketeer.
    Last edited by Ggreen; 09-13-2018 at 20:07.

  2. #52
    Master flightsimmer's Avatar

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    Well I've spent enough time on this post already but bottom line is, after I got the aircraft straightened out, I loved flying it and put several hundred hours on it.
    If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men. (Rom12:18)

  3. #53
    Master Spear Dane's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by flightsimmer View Post
    Well I've spent enough time on this post already but bottom line is, after I got the aircraft straightened out, I loved flying it and put several hundred hours on it.
    I don't blame you for verging on being a raging maniac. And that mechanic that TOOK your plane? Well doing that in a car is so very very illegal and I can't imagine a plane would be less so. I would have prosecuted his butt big time.
    Justin B. - "Make them watch Wonder Woman. They'll molon labe after that!"

  4. #54
    Grandmaster chezuki's Avatar

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    Wow... INGO really can make a pissing match out of anything.
    If you’re free you’ll never see the walls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tactically Fat View Post
    Listen to Rhino, Coach, NHT3, and as much as I hate to say it, Chezuki. :-)
    Mooresville #78 F. & A. M.

  5. #55
    Grandmaster Cameramonkey's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by chezuki View Post
    Wow... INGO really can make a pissing match out of anything.

    You must be new here... LOL
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Freeman View Post
    A confused cop is an arresty cop.
    Quote Originally Posted by hoosierdoc View Post
    also, where do we sign up to touch Frank's equipment?

  6. #56
    Grandmaster GodFearinGunTotin's Avatar

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    I finally got to listen/watch to the video yesterday. I'm impressed. You could tell she was really shaken up when she got the news. time went by, you could hear her confidence grow. Good for her.

    INGOer #18,319

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