Shooting death of a security guard at the hands of police

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  • 2A_Tom

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    Very easy to picture how something like that can happen.

    Yeah, if the officer had a mindset of shoot first and ask questions later.

    Sorry, I have great respect for men who do your job, that are smart enough to do it right. This is a case of pure panic on the part of the officer.

    Would you shoot a man just because he had a gun?

    He is not pointing his gun at you.

    Would you shoot him with out commanding him to drop his gun?

    Would you enter guns ablazing without assessing the situation?

    I believe that anyone who shoots a security guard holding down a perpetrator should never serve on a police force again and his penalty should be at least loss of his right to keep and bear arms.
     

    actaeon277

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    I can see how it happened also.
    That's why I think it's VERY important for someone to call the police and if possible identify good/bad guys.
     

    Denny347

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    Yeah, if the officer had a mindset of shoot first and ask questions later.
    Not even close

    Sorry, I have great respect for men who do your job, that are smart enough to do it right. This is a case of pure panic on the part of the officer.
    You have no idea how chaotic those scenes are. Your opinion is 100% speculation on your part. There is no proof of panic. There are no details released to draw an informed conclusion.

    Would you shoot a man just because he had a gun?
    Uh...YEAH. It's certainly possible.
    He is not pointing his gun at you.
    He was pointing it at a 3rd party. Minus that, the gun does not have to be pointed at me for me to shoot them. It depends on the specifics of that situation.
    Would you shoot him with out commanding him to drop his gun?
    Again, yes. It could be 100% justified depending on the circumstances.
    Would you enter guns ablazing without assessing the situation?
    No proof of that.

    I believe that anyone who shoots a security guard holding down a perpetrator should never serve on a police force again and his penalty should be at least loss of his right to keep and bear arms.
    Sounds like 20/20 hindsight judgement.
     

    2A_Tom

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    Not even close

    You have no idea how chaotic those scenes are. Your opinion is 100% speculation on your part. There is no proof of panic. There are no details released to draw an informed conclusion.


    Uh...YEAH. It's certainly possible.

    He was pointing it at a 3rd party. Minus that, the gun does not have to be pointed at me for me to shoot them. It depends on the specifics of that situation.

    Again, yes. It could be 100% justified depending on the circumstances.

    No proof of that.


    Sounds like 20/20 hindsight judgement.

    Thank you. This stuff happens too often.
     

    thunderchicken

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    Thank you. This stuff happens too often.

    From my perspective if a person plans to work as armed security they better be able to be easily identified. In addition to that someone in that situation needs to stay calm and keep that head on a swivel and be ready to holster the gun or disarm themselves when officers arrive and show open hands and speak up..identify themselves and the suspected shooter. Even if you aren't working as armed security and are just a CC'er this mindset could save your life.

    Is it sad? yes. Will the officer be put through the ringer? yes. But again the security guard had to own his actions too. Sounds like he was responding beyond his level of training and that lack of training may have contributed to his being killed. Just my .02 cents
     

    2A_Tom

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    4 people shot, he subdues the shooter. ¿Beyond his level of training?

    Security guard dies shooter lives, maybe he should have just shot the guy and reholstered.

    All of my previous posts are in reference to the witness statement in the video.


    1. The shooting and fight were over.
    2. The Guard had his knee in the back of what seems to be the shooter.
    3. Patrons were shouting that he was security.
     
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    Kutnupe14

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    From my perspective if a person plans to work as armed security they better be able to be easily identified. In addition to that someone in that situation needs to stay calm and keep that head on a swivel and be ready to holster the gun or disarm themselves when officers arrive and show open hands and speak up..identify themselves and the suspected shooter. Even if you aren't working as armed security and are just a CC'er this mindset could save your life.

    Is it sad? yes. Will the officer be put through the ringer? yes. But again the security guard had to own his actions too. Sounds like he was responding beyond his level of training and that lack of training may have contributed to his being killed. Just my .02 cents

    What "sounds" like the security guard was acting beyond his training? It was reported that he had a bad guy down, knee in his back, and gun trained on him. LEOs know the holding gun part is a no-no, in that situation, but based on what I have heard so far, I don't have any info that supports the belief that he is responsible for his own death. VU is correct, that it's easy to see how it could occur, but don't assume that either party did something they didn't reasonably believe was correct to ensure their, or other's, safety.
     

    thunderchicken

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    What "sounds" like the security guard was acting beyond his training? It was reported that he had a bad guy down, knee in his back, and gun trained on him. LEOs know the holding gun part is a no-no, in that situation, but based on what I have heard so far, I don't have any info that supports the belief that he is responsible for his own death. VU is correct, that it's easy to see how it could occur, but don't assume that either party did something they didn't reasonably believe was correct to ensure their, or other's, safety.

    IMO in refrence to the training level, he didn't identify himself & didn't re- holster when the threat was stopped. Maybe he had tunnel vision and wasn't aware that officers had arrived. In the chaos maybe he & others didn't hear commands to drop the weapon, we don't know. Look I 'm not trying to bash the guy for his actions. He put himself in position to intervene and was able to stop the bad guy. That's great. But if he failed to identify himself and failed to holster or disarm upon arrival of officers his actions may have contributed to him being killed. From my perspective that is a training issue. Not saying his actions were a total pooch screw, but perhaps his situational awareness fell apart or perhaps he wasn't sufficiently trained. Regardless its all speculation since we aren't privy to all the details. Just stating what I took away from the video clip from witnesses. Just my .02
     

    2A_Tom

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    [video=youtube;wcLCOO_YU-o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcLCOO_YU-o[/video]
     

    thunderchicken

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    Here’s an update fri 5 hours ago.

    [video=youtube_share;9G25fukM6Js]http://youtu.be/9G25fukM6Js[/video]

    Not sure it adds much beyond what the other video showed regarding people yelling he's security. And implys the officer may have shot prematurely...but I take such statements with a grain of salt as perspectives will vary.
    Still an altogether bad situation
     

    Kutnupe14

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    Not sure it adds much beyond what the other video showed regarding people yelling he's security. And implys the officer may have shot prematurely...but I take such statements with a grain of salt as perspectives will vary.
    Still an altogether bad situation

    They said that even OTHER officers were yelling at the officer who shot.
     
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