House water line Dx and Tx challenge.

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  • SmileDocHill

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    Mar 26, 2009
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    My house was built in the 70's and I think this line has been leaking from the beginning.

    We had to have all the 70's insulation removed from between the floor joists (they don't do that anymore) and ductwork as part of mold remediation and our heating bill went through the ceiling! Had several people look into it and they had recommendations, all good advice but none would account for the severity of the heating bill change or the coincidental timing right after the work was done.

    Well, I found the leak and associated rusted out areas on the duct work. 2 larger than basketball sized holes! We were basically heating the crawlspace.

    The leak:
    -Copper lines,
    -Soldered or sweated in-line joint
    -Positioned above the main rectangular duct (3' wide) in the floor joists in the crawlspace, and was hidden by the duct insulation.
    -There was a 3" stalactite hanging from the pipe and a huge stalagmite on the duct work.
    -Water droplet falls every several minutes, very slow.

    Cooincidental timing: Removing the insulation was the straw that broke the camel's back and the rusted metal caved in.

    Sooo: diagnosis solved. Onto the treatment plan.
    I have a plan for everything but fixing the leak. I'm Really not wanting to try and re-sweat a bead on the joint in the position it is in, especially since I would have to figure out how to do that first:-) . After all it took 40yrs for it cause a problem the first time, lol.
    How acceptable would it be to use some of the pipe repair wraps I see advertised and at Lowe's? Compression fittings type repair kits I've seen work?
    Professionals may not want to read this next idea. I'm also considering creating a way to direct the leak away from the ductwork into a bucket. I could monitor the flow rate and see if it is an actual problem.
     

    BigBoxaJunk

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    I you can get enough access to use a pipe cutter (you can get one that's made to fit in tight spaces), you might consider cutting out the leaking joint and splicing in a new short piece of copper pipe with "Shark-bite" fittings. The Shark-bites are very easy to slip on the pipe ends, and they make a good repair.
     

    Alpo

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    Reflowing the solder is unlikely to work because of the mineral deposits along the leak channel. Is this a coupling or a T or Elbow? If a coupling, you can cut it out and put in a mechanical repair coupling. More than that, you should probably get a professional in there before you burn the house down. Too great a chance for things to go wrong in a crawl space if its not something you do for a living.
     

    femurphy77

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    I you can get enough access to use a pipe cutter (you can get one that's made to fit in tight spaces), you might consider cutting out the leaking joint and splicing in a new short piece of copper pipe with "Shark-bite" fittings. The Shark-bites are very easy to slip on the pipe ends, and they make a good repair.


    This. I "think" they even make a special splice piece that you place in the void left by the damaged section being cut out and then extend it onto the fresh cut ends. I know they have this for pvc but not sure about copper and shark bites.
     

    SmileDocHill

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    I've used the sharkbite attachments before. I actually like the idea of cutting the section out and replacing it. I'm embarrassed to admit my brain was fixated on the tight space where the actual leak is and only pictured options that involve that small section of pipe. No reason the replaced pipe section has to be small. It would be much easier to cut the pipe a couple feet before it goes over the ductwork on each side, pass a new section of pipe through the hard to work area, then I can work with the fittings where there is more space.
     

    1911ly

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    I've used the sharkbite attachments before. I actually like the idea of cutting the section out and replacing it. I'm embarrassed to admit my brain was fixated on the tight space where the actual leak is and only pictured options that involve that small section of pipe. No reason the replaced pipe section has to be small. It would be much easier to cut the pipe a couple feet before it goes over the ductwork on each side, pass a new section of pipe through the hard to work area, then I can work with the fittings where there is more space.

    This sounds like a great plan to me. It is always better to give yourself plenty of room.

    I like working with copper. And I have fixed quite a few poorly soldered connections. A lot of people get in a hurry and call it done when the solder starts to flow. I was taught back in my high school days to solder pipe. He was an old plumber. Plenty of flux on bright and clean copper and don't push the solder until your flame starts to turn green. I have never had a connection of mine leak, so far.
     

    churchmouse

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    Alpo nailed it. Solder prep requires a shiny well sanded and clean joint. Also the right flux to complete the cleaning process. With the minerals etc you will never get that to work.

    I would cut it out and solder in new material but I am just old school.
     

    DocIndy

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    Get two shark bite couplings and the corresponding size pex pipe to make the repair. I'm a big fan of pex pipe. I will be replacing the mismatched plumbing with all new pex and crimp rings with brass barb tees and elbows.
     

    Cameramonkey

    www.thechosen.tv
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    Alpo nailed it. Solder prep requires a shiny well sanded and clean joint. Also the right flux to complete the cleaning process. With the minerals etc you will never get that to work.

    I would cut it out and solder in new material but I am just old.

    FIFY. :):
     

    SmileDocHill

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    This is now turning into a venting thread, :)
    Sunday I discovered there was a water drain line that passes through the top edge of the duct work. Not just through the duct work, like a hole on each side, they cut a trough through the entire top plate of a 3+ foot wide metal duct, placed a piece of metal on top of it and all TWO! sheet metal screws are no longer holding the repair metal to the duct. At best the 2 screws held the metal pieces closer but never sealed the area off. So there has also been a hole the size of a 2" pvc pipe 3+ feet long allowing air to blow into the crawlspace probably since the house was built.
    The fix was a fun one though. I cut an access hole on the bottom of the duct to have access to fix the seal on the top from the inside, then cut a piece of metal 2" wider on all dimensions to replace the access hole on the bottom.
     

    SmileDocHill

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    Ah the joys of home ownership!

    Lol, exactly.
    BTW, I just reread my post above, I'm not trying to disparage the previous builder,plumber, hvac guy... I have no idea what standard of care is for this stuff now, let alone in the 70's. I'm not trying to criticize the work, just describing the projects as they present themselves upon my todo list.
     
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