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  1. #31
    Master rob63's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by GodFearinGunTotin View Post
    There's still more GM plants in Indiana than Honda or Toyota, if I'm remembering correctly.
    That may well be true, but the worm has turned regardless. I'm not going back after seeing how good a car can be.
    INGO - too small for a republic, too large for an insane asylum.

  2. #32
    Grandmaster GodFearinGunTotin's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by rob63 View Post
    That may well be true, but the worm has turned regardless. I'm not going back after seeing how good a car can be.
    That's a different reason for switching than the one you stated. But OK.
    INGOer #18,319

  3. #33
    Master PaulF's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by rob63 View Post
    I grew up in an area where just about everybody we knew worked at a GM plant, so it was taken for granted that you drove a GM product. My first job after college was working for GM. I naturally maintained the GM tradition throughout my adult life. 10 years ago it dawned on me that GM had closed all of the plants that my friends and relatives used to work at and moved the jobs to Mexico. Meanwhile, Honda had built a plant in Indiana. Consequently, we bought a Honda Accord in 2009. I will never, EVER, buy another automobile from an American corporation.
    What even is an American Company anymore? Everything is publicly traded and owned by anyone with a computer. Hedge funds, mutual funds, endowments...all purchased or funded by anyone with the capital to buy in. I'll bet there are a fair number of wealthy Chinese, Japanese, German, Indian, and Russian players cozied up to the bar with our traditional American investor.

    Couple with that the fact that the modern automotive industry is heavily vendor-driven. That Ford has the same ABS system as that Honda or VW. Same goes for the engine management system. Vendors design entire automotive systems, including the framework to modify and produce these systems. The Automotive "Manufacturer" has become little more than a design, assembly, and marketing house, packaging other company's engineering into a final product they believe their consumer will buy. I think we are beginning to see the end of the "assembly" part of the manufacturer's mission, too. It is becoming ever more common to outsource major assembly to third-party vendors.

    The VW Passat and Atlas are builtin Tennessee. The Jetta, Tiguan, and Golf are built in Mexico. German what?

  4. #34
    Grandmaster GodFearinGunTotin's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulF View Post
    What even is an American Company anymore? Everything is publicly traded and owned by anyone with a computer. Hedge funds, mutual funds, endowments...all purchased or funded by anyone with the capital to buy in. I'll bet there are a fair number of wealthy Chinese, Japanese, German, Indian, and Russian players cozied up to the bar with our traditional American investor.

    Couple with that the fact that the modern automotive industry is heavily vendor-driven. That Ford has the same ABS system as that Honda or VW. Same goes for the engine management system. Vendors design entire automotive systems, including the framework to modify and produce these systems. The Automotive "Manufacturer" has become little more than a design, assembly, and marketing house, packaging other company's engineering into a final product they believe their consumer will buy. I think we are beginning to see the end of the "assembly" part of the manufacturer's mission, too. It is becoming ever more common to outsource major assembly to third-party vendors.

    The VW Passat and Atlas are builtin Tennessee. The Jetta, Tiguan, and Golf are built in Mexico. German what?
    There was a time in the 20th century when car manufacturers were extremely vertically integrated. They built everything (practically) that was needed to build their cars. As you allude, today they will build key components where they either have special expertise/equipment or they want to control the cost. The plant where I'm at is here specifically to control the costs of certain components that other, non-allied manufacturers can make as well but will jack up prices for once they have all of the business. They will always trade off costs and benefits when it comes to building components and sub assemblies in house vs an outside vendor.
    INGOer #18,319

  5. #35
    Grandmaster jd4320t's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by GodFearinGunTotin View Post
    There's still more GM plants in Indiana than Honda or Toyota, if I'm remembering correctly.
    Which ones are left? I know the truck plant in Ft. Wayne is still there.
    Busse Combat. Unchallenged. Unmatched. No regrets.

  6. #36
    Grandmaster HoughMade's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Route 45 View Post
    ...I'll take the word of the guys who bet real dollars on it over anyone who is impressed with a 1988 Pontiac.
    So you owned my '88 Pontiac that never had anything go wrong with it after I did?

    It's anecdotal, but my experience is my experience and is pretty consistent. I have never seen a reliability advantage on a well maintained vehicle that justified the price premium of a Honda, for instance, to me. I generally consider them, but have never bought one because whatever the advantages are, I will be giving up equipment, year or miles to pay the same price. Normally, my regular cars, I do not keep for 200,000 miles and if you do, maybe the price makes sense. At, say, 150,000 miles and under? Nope. BTW- both buying new and extended warranties are sucker's bets.
    Last edited by HoughMade; 5 Days Ago at 09:04.
    "Research just slows the funny down." - Dr.Midnight

  7. #37
    Grandmaster femurphy77's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by bwframe View Post
    It's not that people don't want small cars, its that American car companies cannot compete with the majority of the foreign market. There is not any real money in it when you have American car manufacturing expenses vs those that the foreign car companies have brought over with them.

    American car companies want their sales high dollar, rivaling what home sales were just years ago. It becomes very forgiving when people become used to living their whole life with a continual monthly vehicle payment. Compared to a vehicle that will be paid off free and clear in a short few years, to let them understand living without that regular payment.
    This one hit home; I took on my first car payment in 20 plus years a few months ago. OUCH. I guess I should have just calculated in a lifetime car payment many moons ago and I'd have been o.k.
    Yes I am for gun control!! A firm grip, steady aim, and a gentle squeeze!!

    What comes after your first "infraction"? Double Secret Probation perhaps???

  8. #38
    Marksman

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    Quote Originally Posted by jd4320t View Post
    Which ones are left? I know the truck plant in Ft. Wayne is still there.
    Bedford - GM Central Foundry

  9. #39
    Grandmaster GodFearinGunTotin's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by jd4320t View Post
    Which ones are left? I know the truck plant in Ft. Wayne is still there.
    The casting plant in Bedford, the stamping plant in Marion (I think that's the town), Ft Wayne, and if you count the Kokomo plant (it was part of Delphi but I think GM took it back over but I could be off on that).

    Chrysler has two plants in Indiana that I know of. They are up in Kokomo too.
    INGOer #18,319

  10. #40
    Grandmaster GodFearinGunTotin's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe138 View Post
    Bedford - GM Central Foundry
    Dude, that's like two name changes ago.
    INGOer #18,319

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