I was chatting with a friend today about some of the news regarding the Mueller investigation. As far as I can see (so far) much of it alleges the planning of crimes but nothing happened.
My buddy says planning a crime is a crime and I call BS. He wanted to talk about plotting to assassinate the president and what could be done. I won't go there, not for fear of the discussion, but that I know there are special/additional federal laws regarding the president, probably senators and so on. My thought is on planning a "normal" crime, like robbery or murder.
So if a group of folks gets together and fantasizes about robbing a bank or whacking an ex spouse, I believe it could be planned and acted upon - to a point, without it being a crime. At some point some "overt act" would have to be done that would cross the line from fanciful think to actually criminality, but what is that overt act?
So say to rob the bank this happens:
#1) there is a discussion of the plot.
#2) the bank is scouted out (pictures of outside, someone goes in to see cameras, etc).
#3) guns are bought.
#4) pictures of the bank are taken.
#5) a get away route is drawn up.
#6) masks are bought.
#7) duct tape is bought to tie up people if needed.
#8) an abandoned building is used to "practice" the robbery.
#9) the plans are shelved as the group claims victory of robbing the bank in the abandoned building.
At which point, if any, could realistic charges be filed and probably won? Also, say the plans lay dormant in one of the "conspirators" home for three (3) years and the police find them while executing a warrant for another alleged crime. How long ago would it have to be dropped before it would be thrown out?
I know these are broad brush questions, but I don't think any charges could be filed as none of the above acts has crossed a Rubicon of no going back. So far in this scenario it is just fantasy. However, I do know that at some point some overt act could cross the line into criminality. This is what I am trying to get a clearer picture of.
Or am I entirely wrong and the fantasizing and planning of a crime is itself a conspiracy? My problem with the thought that I am wrong is that I would see it as a violation of freedom of speech and thought policing.
Regards,
Doug
My buddy says planning a crime is a crime and I call BS. He wanted to talk about plotting to assassinate the president and what could be done. I won't go there, not for fear of the discussion, but that I know there are special/additional federal laws regarding the president, probably senators and so on. My thought is on planning a "normal" crime, like robbery or murder.
So if a group of folks gets together and fantasizes about robbing a bank or whacking an ex spouse, I believe it could be planned and acted upon - to a point, without it being a crime. At some point some "overt act" would have to be done that would cross the line from fanciful think to actually criminality, but what is that overt act?
So say to rob the bank this happens:
#1) there is a discussion of the plot.
#2) the bank is scouted out (pictures of outside, someone goes in to see cameras, etc).
#3) guns are bought.
#4) pictures of the bank are taken.
#5) a get away route is drawn up.
#6) masks are bought.
#7) duct tape is bought to tie up people if needed.
#8) an abandoned building is used to "practice" the robbery.
#9) the plans are shelved as the group claims victory of robbing the bank in the abandoned building.
At which point, if any, could realistic charges be filed and probably won? Also, say the plans lay dormant in one of the "conspirators" home for three (3) years and the police find them while executing a warrant for another alleged crime. How long ago would it have to be dropped before it would be thrown out?
I know these are broad brush questions, but I don't think any charges could be filed as none of the above acts has crossed a Rubicon of no going back. So far in this scenario it is just fantasy. However, I do know that at some point some overt act could cross the line into criminality. This is what I am trying to get a clearer picture of.
Or am I entirely wrong and the fantasizing and planning of a crime is itself a conspiracy? My problem with the thought that I am wrong is that I would see it as a violation of freedom of speech and thought policing.
Regards,
Doug