Thoughts on Narcan

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  • KellyinAvon

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    The Live PD #37 (38??) of the top 40 countdown had Sheriff Lamb and Deputies using Narcan (Naloxone) to revive some random dude OD'd, face-down on the sidewalk after shooting up with heroin. Shooting up in public is something we've heard about here in Indiana. That way if you OD somebody will call 911 and the Narcan will be on the way.

    What if Narcan wasn't a nasal spray? What if it was administered from an auto-injector like Atropine and 2-PAM Chloride for nerve gas exposure? I probably spent one enlistment at MOPP 2 or higher and I thank the Good Lord I never had to inject myself or anyone else with those things. In a training class once the instructor pressed an auto-injector against a piece of cardboard. It shot ten feet. The only thing worse than those Atropine and 2 PAM Chloride auto-injectors? Dying from nerve gas exposure.

    Would we have as many ODing drug addicts if the drug that saved them was delivered in the same manner as the drugs that will save you from nerve gas exposure? Just a thought...
     

    churchmouse

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    The Live PD #37 (38??) of the top 40 countdown had Sheriff Lamb and Deputies using Narcan (Naloxone) to revive some random dude OD'd, face-down on the sidewalk after shooting up with heroin. Shooting up in public is something we've heard about here in Indiana. That way if you OD somebody will call 911 and the Narcan will be on the way.

    What if Narcan wasn't a nasal spray? What if it was administered from an auto-injector like Atropine and 2-PAM Chloride for nerve gas exposure? I probably spent one enlistment at MOPP 2 or higher and I thank the Good Lord I never had to inject myself or anyone else with those things. In a training class once the instructor pressed an auto-injector against a piece of cardboard. It shot ten feet. The only thing worse than those Atropine and 2 PAM Chloride auto-injectors? Dying from nerve gas exposure.

    Would we have as many ODing drug addicts if the drug that saved them was delivered in the same manner as the drugs that will save you from nerve gas exposure? Just a thought...

    My feelings on this topic have been aired before. I have deep seated reasons for them. Many members with kind hearts and good souls are all for the Narcan. Good on them.

    As to the delivery system....these idiots could give a **** as long as it pulls them out of the well they have fallen into. Only to fall back into it again tomorrow.
     

    KellyinAvon

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    My feelings on this topic have been aired before. I have deep seated reasons for them. Many members with kind hearts and good souls are all for the Narcan. Good on them.

    As to the delivery system....these idiots could give a **** as long as it pulls them out of the well they have fallen into. Only to fall back into it again tomorrow.

    I dunno man, skinny junkie gets half his arse blown off by one of those things he might think differently about next time.
     

    MarkC

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    Unfortunately, this is a tough call. We, as an advanced, civilized society, want to do the right thing for those with needs who cannot take care of themselves. However, this structure, this gracefulness, this moral imperative, however you look at it, will cause some to take advantage. It is hard to strike a balance, especially when lives are at risk.

    However, the wide availability of Narcan, done as a humane measure for those who overdose, has led to increased risk taking. Narcan has even become an integral part of some groups culture, allowing members to use more. This is contrary to the public policy that brought this widespread distribution.

    Economists call it moral hazard, described by wikipedia as:

    In economics, moral hazard occurs when someone increases their exposure to risk when insured, especially when a person takes more risks because someone else bears the cost of those risks.

    I wish I were smart enough to know the answer. We cannot just abandon humans because they are ill or engage in self-destructive behavior. But we need to treat the illness or address the behavior in some matter that respects the rights and dignity of the users while still protecting our societal structure.
     

    JCSR

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    My son heads up a small group in Evansville that have trained and carry Narcan daily. He is way more tolerant of these type of things than I am.
     

    hoosierdoc

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    Lay person dosing gives it intranasal. No needles involved. Just a syringe and an atomizer.

    intranasal lasts 4 hours, IV about an hour. If they are given IV narcan we can discharge them in 90 mins if awake. Intranasal it’s 4 hour hold. Guess who doesn’t want to hang out for four hours in an ER?
     
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    churchmouse

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    My son heads up a small group in Evansville that have trained and carry Narcan daily. He is way more tolerant of these type of things than I am.

    So many want to help. They may feel this is an answer to something we really do not know the question yet.

    Unfortunately I have grown up with this insanity all around me. Family/friends/acquaintances. Not just Heroin but the drug culture in general. I watched it creep out from the inner city and spread through the burbs. I have lost a brother and nearly a son to this. My spouse did not totally loose her sister but what remains is pretty shallow. Friends have OD'd. Wandered off into the dark side. Most have perished with time. Talented artists, musicians, mechanics. Some never got set on a path.

    I am lost as what to do. My tolerance for these things is Zip. NADA.
     

    bwframe

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    This will get worse before it gets better. We need to change our acceptance of being such a drug loving society. It starts with alcohol...
     

    DRob

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    It's the phenomenon du jour based on the welfare model. Starting with good intent, such things are all abused and will eventually become a way of life passed down from generation to generation. Some have even spawned a great migration, say from south of the Rio Grande for example.
     

    hoosierdoc

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    Addicts need boundaries and rigid rules. They don’t need to be discarded as humans but society/families need to be protected from them. When they want help, they should be able to receive it. Problem is they burn bridges so badly their family often does not want to be involved anymore because they put up an emotional wall to protect themselves.

    redemption can only come through a change of heart. Something transformative. Usually religion.

    welfare contributes greatly because working has nothing to do with eating in this country anymore. When you get free food, housing, healthcare, sitting around and getting into trouble just sorta happens.

    if you had to get up for work to eat and have a house, we’d see less stupidity
     

    JCSR

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    So many want to help. They may feel this is an answer to something we really do not know the question yet.

    Unfortunately I have grown up with this insanity all around me. Family/friends/acquaintances. Not just Heroin but the drug culture in general. I watched it creep out from the inner city and spread through the burbs. I have lost a brother and nearly a son to this. My spouse did not totally loose her sister but what remains is pretty shallow. Friends have OD'd. Wandered off into the dark side. Most have perished with time. Talented artists, musicians, mechanics. Some never got set on a path.

    I am lost as what to do. My tolerance for these things is Zip. NADA.

    I have lived with it too. My best friend died a drug related death a few years ago. He came from a great family you all probably know from Owensboro. Every family member at one point tried help. My oldest son was addicted to pain meds and the more we helped the worse it got. After we refused to support his addiction (that's exactly what we were doing) he got himself straightened out. Anyone that hasn't got this problem should thank God every day.
     

    Sigblitz

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    welfare contributes greatly because working has nothing to do with eating in this country anymore. When you get free food, housing, healthcare, sitting around and getting into trouble just sorta happens.

    if you had to get up for work to eat and have a house, we’d see less stupidity

    /\ /\ /\ That's a good point. Be a responsible person.
     
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