Gun control vote in Switzerland

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  • Sylvain

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    After Australia, it's now Switzerland's turn.The Swiss are more likely to lose some of their gun rights.

    armes-suisse-loi.jpg


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48328867


    The projections indicate that 67% of voters in Sunday's referendum supported tougher restrictions on semi-automatic and automatic weapons.Switzerland is not an EU member, but risked removal from the open-border Schengen Area if it had voted "no".
    Switzerland has a long tradition of gun ownership.
    Nearly 48% of households there own a gun, putting it among the highest rates of private ownership in Europe.

    The EU wants to ban semi-automatic weapons, and so-called "high capacity magazines" (I think everything over 10 rds).

    They even want the ban to apply to non-EU states like Switzerland.

    The Swiss government urged voters to back the changes.
    It said gun enthusiasts would not notice the new rules, while adopting them would allow Switzerland to retain its Schengen membership.

    Suuuuuuuuure. :rolleyes:

    All that is done to maker sure that something similar to the 2015 Paris attacks will not happen anymore.
    You know those attacks where illegal unregistered full-automatic rifles and explosive were used, things already illegal at that time. :ugh:

    Soon the US will be the last standing beacon of freedom when it comes to gun rights. :noway:
     

    Dean C.

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    IMHO Germany runs the EU (the only true European economic and manufacturing powerhouse), pushing gun control was the first thing they did in the 1930's too. Maybe I am just paranoid
     

    Sylvain

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    IMHO Germany runs the EU (the only true European economic and manufacturing powerhouse), pushing gun control was the first thing they did in the 1930's too. Maybe I am just paranoid

    It has to do with the number of MEPs (member of the European parliament), Germany has the most (96) of all the EU countries.
    It will change with Brexit since the UK would give up their 73 seats that will go to other countries.
     

    femurphy77

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    IMHO Germany runs the EU (the only true European economic and manufacturing powerhouse), pushing gun control was the first thing they did in the 1930's too. Maybe I am just paranoid

    Two world wars were fought for this reason. Proof positive that it's better to infiltrate and destroy from within. Hmmm, wonder where else this is happening?
     

    JeepHammer

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    IMHO Germany runs the EU (the only true European economic and manufacturing powerhouse), pushing gun control was the first thing they did in the 1930's too. Maybe I am just paranoid

    Just for the record, and to put the quoted material in context,
    The Swiss have a standing civilian reserve army, which about 44% of the country is currently in the age frame of.
    These members are required to keep their rifles at their homes, along with battle gear, ammo, etc.

    They are like Israel, since nearly every adult has had military training, they aren't afraid of firearms.
    If it weren't for terrorist attacks in Israel there would be nearly zero gun crimes, you just don't know who's packing a military grade firearm...
    The Swiss have a similar very low amount of firearms crime, and for the same reason.

    By comparison, only about 3% of Americans have served or are serving in the military.

    -------------------

    While not what you want to hear since it doesn't fit the agenda dogma,
    England was the first with firearms control, which goes back to the invention of firearms.
    Keep in mind all lands were property of 'The Crown', and limiting firearms availability was seen as a way to control poaching, keep people from taking pot shots at game keepers.

    NAZIs started firearms registration as an agenda, not for population security against firearms related crime.

    Firearms ownership records were compared against NAZI party records, and non-members were disarmed.
    Since the NAZI party didn't accept Jews, Gypsies, etc. AND they were disarmed, it made them MUCH easier to round up...
    And we all know what happened after that.

    Since under federal law, firearms ownership records are kept on paper in the US, it's VERY difficult to track any specific firearm back to the original purchase.
    Since there are only a couple states that require serialized registration to a specific owner,
    Almost no cooperation between states,
    Virtually no laws requiring subsequent owners to register (private seller, second, third, fourth etc owners),
    And few laws requiring 'Private Sellers' to do the background check/paperwork,
    There is virtually no way to track a firearm.

    An example is the Las Vegas shooter,
    Law enforcement had to ASK gun dealers to look through records, they couldn't even get a warrant to require dealers to look through records.
    Since long guns paperwork doesn't get sent off to BATFE (stays with dealer) the BATFE had to visit dealers to find paperwork, which took nearly a year, and according to FBI, only accounted for about 2/3 of the rifles they found in his hotel room & home.

    Keep in mind there are more firearms in the US than people.
    The registration of firearms didn't start nation wide until 1968 or so,
    And you still have the right to manufacture a firearm at home with no paperwork at all, simply no one knows it exists.
    Between "80% Receivers" and 3D printing,
    The 'Gun Bans' train has left the station and is 1,000 miles away...

    No matter what cosmetic bans they pass (pistol grip, threaded muzzle, etc) or 'Detachable' high cap mags (simply use a captured mag) firearms makers will find a way around it while the 'Bans' are challenged in courts.
    This genie is out of the bottle.

    That being said,
    I simply won't do anything illegal.
    I'll fight bans, I won't vote for registrations.
    If they pass, I will comply simply because I'm way too old and broken down to do jail time over a 'Toy'.
    I'm not in the military, or law enforcement, so I actually don't 'NEED' high cap mags or high rate of fire firearms.
    I've never been one of the 'Spray & Pray' types...

    --------------

    You need to look back to WWII...
    The Japanese had 6,000 Marines, 10,000 army on boats headed to the west coast of the US to invade, establish a beach head.
    This was designed to force America to pull US troops from the Pacific to defend the country...

    A naval commander, educated in the US had some information that stopped the invasion in it's tracks...

    Even during wartime, there had been a million hunting licences issued in the costal states.
    1,000,000 'Irregular Reserves' with high powered rifles, their own ammunition, their own food/supplies, their own transportation, and could be anywhere on the west coast in 72 hours...
    500,000 could be anywhere on the west coast in 36 hours...
    They also considered the civilians wouldn't fight by any known rules of war.
    (They didn't bring a big enough boat! ;) MUCH too big of a shark to jump!)

    I bring this up simply because the Second Amendment says firearms ownership is necessary to the security of country/constitution.
    With ONLY 3% that actually have training, the rest are questionable at best...
    I sure wouldn't want the 'Average' firearms owner anywhere around me should I be called on to fight again, I've been to the ranges and seen what they do, usually what they saw on TV/movies and ZERO idea of basic firearms safety.
    I can't imagine what they would do under stress in a combat situation!

    I see the problem, and why people are demanding something be done about the availability of firearms to criminals,
    The 'Accidental' shootings, the school and other mass shootings.
    I really do think SOMETHING needs to be done,

    I simply don't know what would work other than reducing availability of firearms (virtually impossible),
    Or to educate EVERYONE (military conscription?) on the responsibility of firearms ownership & use...
    *IF* anyone tells you they have an 'Easy' answer, make them prove it and pass it on!

    Throwing out random memes does nothing,
    You can't get firearms owners to self regulate and/or brainstorm to solve any issues,
    The states won't get along enough to come to a rational decision,
    And I'm not a 'Super Genius' that has all the answers...
    I'm willing to listen, unlike most people regarding the 2nd and ownership rights.
     
    Last edited:

    Sylvain

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    Just for the record, and to put the quoted material in context,
    The Swiss have a standing civilian reserve army, which about 44% of the country is currently in the age frame of.
    These members are required to keep their rifles at their homes, along with battle gear, ammo, etc.

    They are like Israel, since nearly every adult has had military training, they aren't afraid of firearms.
    If it weren't for terrorist attacks in Israel there would be nearly zero gun crimes, you just don't know who's packing a military grade firearm...
    The Swiss have a similar very low amount of firearms crime, and for the same reason.

    By comparison, only about 3% of Americans have served or are serving in the military.

    A very small portion of Swiss citizens keep their military firearms at home.

    They have less than 40,000 reserve soldiers, with the active duty members (about 160,000) that's 2.2% of their population who is serving in the military.

    They also no longer keep ammunition at home since 2007.

    They used to keep 50 rounds of what they call "pocket ammo" for their rifle (in sealed boxes), and 25 rds of 9mm for the very few officers who are issued a P220 pistol.

    Now if they are called to serve they need to go to their local base to get issued ammo.

    They can still get some ammo for their rifle but it's not issued by the military.

    Since 2007 some 240,000 ammo boxes have been recalled by the military.

    2477701.image


    That's a sealed box of 5.56.The directions on the box state that it's unlawful to open the box during peace time.
    It can only be open in case of a surprise attack by the enemy or if a commanding officer has given the order.
    The authorities can inspect the box to make sure it has not been opened or used.
     

    JeepHammer

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    That *Could* be true, I haven't trained with the Swiss since 1994 and they kept bolt, and some semi-auto rifles in the home, with heavier firepower in local bunkers so they DIDN'T have to report to military bases before confronting any enemy.
    When 100% of the qualifying population had mandatory military training, that was possible, but I was amazed that no one broke into the local bunkers for the weapons/ammo.

    In countries that have a real democracy, a standing professional armed forces of about 3%-5% is common.
    In 1994 shooting & military drills/organization was taught to every able body person, and that is the ready reserve.

    The 'Head Of Household' in outlaying areas was issued both a rifle & ammo, along with a bicycle until the 1980s, and from what I saw they took this service VERY serious, much like a serious neighborhood watch, these guys brought their sons & daughters with them to meetings on their own time, organized drills & training on their own time, and spent their own money on defensive positions.

    I saw the same thing in Israel, they are SERIOUS about defense & firearms ownership.
    It wasn't a bunch of random people going 1,000 directions at once and doing more fighting/arguing between themselves than training.
    Their defense 'Militias' were as serious as a heart attack, not a bunch of random idiots shooting up everything in sight at the ranges, grooming their neck beards and crapping on everyone that didn't have their equipment used their specific way...
    And their crap wasn't learned on the internet/tv/movies...
     

    Sylvain

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    They stopped giving ammo to keep at home in 2007.
    Only few soldiers (less than 2,000 from what I read) who have special duties still get to keep ammo at home.
    Folks who have their military rifle at home still need to practice once a year.They have to show up to a shooting range where they are issued ammo (they can't take it home).
    After they stop serving int he military they can keep their rifle, it's then converted to semi- auto.
     

    JeepHammer

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    Just a quick search turned up what the Swiss are actually saying.
    Its been 'Tradition' that actual Swiss military takes their service rifles home at the end of their time in service,
    That means semi-auto and sometimes full auto military grade weapons.

    What the EU wants and what the Swiss want are two different things.
    The Swiss want the former service rifles to be registered in a national data base, along with all other semi-auto military type rifles,
    And they want to require regesteration transfer when the firearms change hands.
    This is reasonable since the majority of the semi/full autos are officially property of the government in the form of service rifles.

    What the EU wants is an EU wide data base on ALL firearms,
    And the EU wants confiscation of all semi/full auto firearms outside of military & police.

    If this was a true & correct reproduction of what the Swiss actually said, the EU will probably have to suck rocks since nearly 50% of Swiss own firearms.
    By comparison, about 30% of Americans admit to owning firearms...
     

    spec4

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    According to the Chicago Tribune today, 63% of the Swiss voters voted to give up some of their freedom. The camel's nose is in the tent.
     
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