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  1. #11
    x10
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    Looks like I got caught by old info.

    I was informed that changing bases adds to engine wear. And from the research I did, that is no longer true.

    2 things have changed,

    There are very few Paraffin based oils (that's where that came from) and the API now is a more strict specification. I apologize for misleading anyone.

    The only concern I have now is that they will raise the price considerably after the conventional oil is out of the sales system.
    My new info comes from Valvoline

    https://www.valvoline.com/about-us/f...otor-oil-myths
    Tomorrow’s winds will blow tomorrow

  2. #12
    Master SnoopLoggyDog's Avatar

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    If you have a Rural King close by, they stock it. Picked up two quarts this morning.
    I am a Citizen, not a servant....

    Before he was the Man in Black, he was the Airman in Air Force Blue.

  3. #13
    x10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnoopLoggyDog View Post
    If you have a Rural King close by, they stock it. Picked up two quarts this morning.
    thanks,

    Rural king is spotty on what they have in, I'm falling out of love with rural king, but they still have good gun prices
    Tomorrow’s winds will blow tomorrow

  4. #14
    Marksman HKUSP's Avatar

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    I am not a scientist, but I do have a load of experience on the user end of things.

    I worked at a Chevy dealer for nine years. In that course of time "GM" oil went from Valvoline to Pennzoil to standard Mobil to finally Mobil One. The Dexos II specification was just coming along. I got the impression from GM that when they were switching from natural oil to natural oil it was about which oil company would cut them the best deal on a long term contract.

    The transition to full synthetic seemed to be accompanied by a response to addressing a few oil related failures that were popping up and a recognition of the fact that synthetic is far superior. It also dovetailed with warranties getting longer than 3/36000.

    Before working there I spent a few years in a machine shop rebuilding engines. I made it a point to ask customers what kind of oil they ran. The worst engines for sludge and damage were "whatever is on sale".

    The next category of engines were not as bad. Part staining and minor sludge buildup were a couple of the same brands of natural oil. Quaker State and Kendall.

    The next category towards good were in relatively decent shape and were usually coming in for upgrades or valve jobs and gaskets. They were engines on a steady diet of either Pennzoil, Valvoline, Mobil, or Castrol. The Pennzoil and Castrol engines were especially clean.

    The best condition engines were far and above running Castrol or Mobil one synthetics. The parts coming out of those engines were close to spec and many had 200k on them.

    What was my own anecdotal conclusion? If you're going to run a natural base oil you're better off picking one and staying with it, but despite the price synthetic is a far superior way to go.

    I've been running Mobil One for the last 25 years because of that bias I developed back then. I have also had zero oil related failures since then.

    Just my $.02.
    Chris
    Warning! Driver carries MORE than $20 in ammunition.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by x10 View Post
    Went to get oil for oil changes today and there is none to be had. Looks like they changed the packaging and the synthetic is now in the white bottle. We hit 2 autozones, orielly's and napa, (we called the autozone in Angola) and looked in Martinsville and Morgantown, There is no conventional oil to be had.

    Did the stop making it?
    Can't tell you if they completely stopped or not, but conventional oil of all kinds is taking a down turn.
    I'm a big Valvoline fan, Valvoline in all weights & specifications is the only brand that passes all SAE tests.

    With new cars specifying synthetic or the warranty is void,
    And with the removal of zinc from motor oil for emissions & environmental reasons, Valvoline might just have seriously reduced, or stopped making the conventional (zinc bearing) motor oil...

    They do have a history of NOT lying, so it might have been easier and more honest to drop the line than screw with the product and try to pass it off.

    I don't know if this helps, once the engine is done with initial burn in, using low/no zinc oil won't hurt anything (read: synthetic).
    If you are starting a new engine, use a zinc additive for at least the first hour until the cam/lifters are broken in.

    I hadn't had an engine failure in decades until they removed zinc, and had my first camshaft failure ever.
    I called the camshaft manufacturer and they told me about the zinc requirements, and recommended I call Valvoline,
    When I called Valvoline they were more than happy to recommend a zinc additive to use with their oil during burn in.
    Seriously helpful, honest people, a rare thing these days!

    We actually had to change our machining when Valvoline rolled out synthetic oils, the engines wouldn't break in!
    We had to run conventional oil so the rings would seat... Then switch to synthetic.
    They make good stuff, and it's exactly what they claim, sometimes even better than SAE specifications require.

  6. #16
    Sharpshooter

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    All I can say is Dang INGO .... you guys always teaching me something!

  7. #17
    Master Principal Skinr's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by putsjunior View Post
    For what it’s worth, Chrysler pentastar motors have weird specs. valvoline conventional was one of the rare ones you could use without violating the warranty. Chrysler recommended penzoil synthetic blend, but good luck finding that. Most of the dealerships used Kendall in my day. That may have changed in the last 20 years but I’m not sure.
    Chrysler's MS6395 spec is a very easy spec, and any API SN or SN+ rated oil easily would meet it. Mobil 1, Amsoil, and Castrol Edge aren't MS6395 certified because of politics due to Shell Oil (Pennzoil) and their special relationship with FCA. Funny, though, they do permit Exxon Mobil to have Mobil Super Synthetic (their lower end synthetic oil) to have it because it doesn't compete on the same tier as Shell's flagship Pennzoil Platinum oil. That's about as complicated as it gets.

    So here are oils that meet the older Pentastar spec of 5w20 and the newer 0w20 spec: Quaker State, Valvoline, Havoline, Mobil Super Synthetic, Napa, Pennzoil, Shell Rotella Gas Truck, and more.

    The most rigorous specification out there now is Dexos 1 Gen 2. I wouldn't run an oil that doesn't meet that spec. It is MUCH more demanding than Chrysler MS6395 and specifically addresses low speed pre-ignition (LSPI) in direct injected turbocharged engines. (SN+ addresses that, too) Dexos 1, Gen 2 also addresses timing chain wear in DI engines. The Pentastar is not a direct injected engine and is comparatively very easy on oil. If you run a good quality synthetic, you will have plenty of safety margin. I ran Mobil 1 Annual Protection 0w20 in my 2018 JL Pentastar for 7500 miles and then did a used oil analysis through blackstone labs. It came out looking great with plenty of life left in it. I usually, however, do changes every 5k to 6k in my vehicles, but it certainly showed that it was a cakewalk. That run included a trip to Moab and back with lots of 1-5mph rock crawling in between.

    If you are worried about warranty coverage, then run any MS6395 certified oil in your Pentastar, in the specified weight. I've seen many of them with 0ver 300k miles, still running strong. I'm continuing to run Mobil 1 EP or AP because I have always run Mobil 1 and had excellent performance with it. I'm not worrying about them denying any warranty claims because first, I don't think my engine will have any, and because I've done UOA's with each oil change that show it is performing exceptionally well with it. They also know it meets all the API specs and I've never heard of FCA denying coverage of an engine over running Mobil 1. They know it would easily meet MS6395, as many lesser oils do.
    "God will have the last word, and it will be good!" --Dr. Robert H. Schuller

  8. #18
    Master Principal Skinr's Avatar

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    One more quick thing....Napa brand oils are all made by Valvoline. They even say it in the fine print on the back of the bottles. Their ATF is made by Valvoline, too. If you can't find the Valvoline you want, go to Napa and get their stuff. It is one in the same.
    "God will have the last word, and it will be good!" --Dr. Robert H. Schuller

  9. #19
    Grandmaster Hookeye's Avatar

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    I doubt oil brand is as much of a problem as low or no oil.

    Brother in law got his engine hot a couple times, radiator prob.
    Got that fixed and I asked if he was gonna change his oil.

    He was ????????

    I run beaters and get a lot of miles out of em.
    If they are burning or leaking, I aint dumping Mobil One in em.

    In laws have killed several cars............they bought new.
    My crap runs forever.

    Keep em cool, keep em full of good oil.............let Indiana Rust kill the beast.

  10. #20
    Expert

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hookeye View Post
    I doubt oil brand is as much of a problem as low or no oil.

    Brother in law got his engine hot a couple times, radiator prob.
    Got that fixed and I asked if he was gonna change his oil.

    He was ????????

    I run beaters and get a lot of miles out of em.
    If they are burning or leaking, I aint dumping Mobil One in em.

    In laws have killed several cars............they bought new.
    My crap runs forever.

    Keep em cool, keep em full of good oil.............let Indiana Rust kill the beast.
    I run a lot of 'Classic' (read: OLD) vehicles.
    I tend to agree with daily beaters.

    If it has a carb it's fuel contamination long before the oil breaks down.
    Change about 3,000 miles.
    (For millennials, that's carburetor, Google it.)

    If it has a crap load of miles, it's worn pistons, rings, valve guides causing soot & plugging up filters.
    Again, about 3,000 miles.

    With my old gas tractor engines, it's 'Diesel' oil, usually Valvoline or Shell Rotella 15w40.
    It keeps soot & fuel in suspension better than 'Gas' engine oil and lubricates WAY better than anything available in 1938/1954 when the tractors were built.

    My old AMC V-8 engine Jeeps (70s/80s) need a tweek to the oil pump, but run 'Diesel' 15w40 just fine.
    Since they have external oil pumps that's a 5 minute job.

    On the other hand, I also have 'Classic' cars with LS engines, and 'Diesel' oils won't do well.
    Since they don't see a lot of miles, the correct high end oils aren't that big of an expense.

    I'm with Hookeye on Indiana salt/rust killing beaters.
    Run them until the frame rusts out (or the unit body mounts), pull your plates & buy another beater.
    I've bought 'Nice' cars before, just to come out of the store and catch some bored kid kicking their car door into the side of my car,
    I got hit 7 times in 3 years when I lived in town, all but twice the vehicle was parked... One rear end sitting still at a stop sign, one head on sitting still at a stop light, only 3 times catching the other person, in 4 cases they just drove off...

    *Some* of us are old enough to remember paraffin oils, you NEVER bought a car with more than 50,000 miles on it...
    At 50,000 miles the crank would start hitting the engine block things were so worn.
    Gas/service stations would sell 'Freshen Up' kits, piston rings, crank & rod bearings, seals & gaskets.

    Ignition 'Tune Ups' every 1,000 miles, new breaker points at 3,000 miles, never go more than 3,000 miles between oil changes or it wouldn't last 50,000 miles,
    12 month/12,000 mile warranties that were as worthless as the paper they were written on,
    A "5/50 Protection Plan" was 5 minutes or 50 feet out the driveway...

    With today's 'Drivers' (and I use the term loosely), someone hits me, I take the checks from their insurance companies and beat the damage out the best I can without changing hammers, and continue to drive it until some other cell phoner hits it and it won't move anymore.
    It's become a game to see how much I get from the insurance companies over what I paid for the beater...
    Most make quite a profit.

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