Profiling or not

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • femurphy77

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    30   0   0
    Mar 5, 2009
    20,268
    113
    S.E. of disorder
    Without the full conversation it's not worth listening to. We all know how easy it is to manipulate audio to serve a purpose. Of course a LARGE percentage of the populations is EASILY swayed by rumors and innuendo.
     

    KMaC

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Feb 4, 2016
    1,535
    83
    Indianapolis
    The poster of the video is exaggerating the events to get views and outrage. He uses the title Officer pulling out his gun on a student outside his dorm but I see no evidence that the officer actually pulled a gun. The student frequently says "you have your hand on your gun" but he doesn't say anything about the gun being out of the holster. I think the student would have been really outraged if the cop had pulled a gun over a trepass.
     

    VUPDblue

    Silencers Have NEVER Been Illegal !
    Rating - 100%
    25   0   1
    Mar 20, 2008
    12,885
    83
    Franklin Township
    I’m not real sure what the purpose of the stop and detention was. Ok, so trespass is a problem there, but trespass itself isn’t usually the issue, it’s what those trespassers are doing that’s generally the problem (harassing residents, smoking, drinking, pan handling etc...). This dude was picking up trash with tools commonly associated with that task. Also, I was in college once, and my ID absolutely did not have my dorm address on it...I don’t think anyone I knew then had their college address on their ID.

    This encounter, or the part the video shows, doesn’t seem to pass the reasonableness test we got from Graham vs. Connor. The nature and quality of the intrusion vs the government interest at stake. Unless there is more info, like a 911 call that brings the officer to that location because the suspect was being complained against for doing something I might have mentioned above, it doesn’t seem like he should have been detained at taser point.

    All I am saying is that if the officer created this encounter on his own then I can’t see a logical reason for it. There are a lot of context clues that the dude was not breaking the law.
     

    Hoosierdood

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    8   0   0
    Nov 2, 2010
    5,360
    149
    North of you
    Without the full conversation it's not worth listening to. We all know how easy it is to manipulate audio to serve a purpose. Of course a LARGE percentage of the populations is EASILY swayed by rumors and innuendo.

    Come on dude, are you really serious here? What more of the conversation do you need? What part of the conversation do you suspect is being manipulated? The actions and body language seem to go right along with the video. I dont understand what part of the video is difficult to believe.

    The thing that blows my mind (not necessarily directed at you) is that whenever a short video or audio clip of some politician surfaces, everyone jumps on it, Glenn Beck does a whole radio show on it, and it goes viral on social media with people calling for heads to roll. But whenever it is a cop, (around here at least) we get the response of "Well, we dont know the whole story. Lets not be too quick to judge". How about we just start being reasonable and call a spade a spade.
     

    Hoosierdood

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    8   0   0
    Nov 2, 2010
    5,360
    149
    North of you
    And this is precisely how a good cop would have approached the situation.

    I’m not real sure what the purpose of the stop and detention was. Ok, so trespass is a problem there, but trespass itself isn’t usually the issue, it’s what those trespassers are doing that’s generally the problem (harassing residents, smoking, drinking, pan handling etc...). This dude was picking up trash with tools commonly associated with that task. Also, I was in college once, and my ID absolutely did not have my dorm address on it...I don’t think anyone I knew then had their college address on their ID.

    This encounter, or the part the video shows, doesn’t seem to pass the reasonableness test we got from Graham vs. Connor. The nature and quality of the intrusion vs the government interest at stake. Unless there is more info, like a 911 call that brings the officer to that location because the suspect was being complained against for doing something I might have mentioned above, it doesn’t seem like he should have been detained at taser point.

    All I am saying is that if the officer created this encounter on his own then I can’t see a logical reason for it. There are a lot of context clues that the dude was not breaking the law.
     

    Tanfodude

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 25, 2012
    3,886
    83
    4 Seasons
    What was laughable was the way thr LEO described the reacher as "blunt object" while calling for back up. The reacher is commonly used by older people in the nursing home.
     

    femurphy77

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    30   0   0
    Mar 5, 2009
    20,268
    113
    S.E. of disorder
    Come on dude, are you really serious here? What more of the conversation do you need? What part of the conversation do you suspect is being manipulated? The actions and body language seem to go right along with the video. I dont understand what part of the video is difficult to believe.

    The thing that blows my mind (not necessarily directed at you) is that whenever a short video or audio clip of some politician surfaces, everyone jumps on it, Glenn Beck does a whole radio show on it, and it goes viral on social media with people calling for heads to roll. But whenever it is a cop, (around here at least) we get the response of "Well, we dont know the whole story. Lets not be too quick to judge". How about we just start being reasonable and call a spade a spade.

    My fault. I did not listen to it, just tired of incendiary recordings only meant to trigger responses. I read Rhino's post (not blaming the purple pachy) and "ass"umed it was strictly audio with no video. Video is definitely a lot harder to manipulate without being obvious.

    I'll make a donation to Moms Needing Some Action to atone for my sins.

    :laugh:
     

    CPT Nervous

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    17   0   0
    Mar 7, 2012
    6,378
    63
    The Southern Bend
    Yeah...

    Officer handled that poorly.

    Devil's advocate:
    Atkinson was on private property. Officer stopped to ID him, as he suspected him of trespassing. Atkinson became agitated, which increased the officer's suspicion. Atkinson refused to comply with orders to drop his grabber thingy. Officer became more wary of Atkinson due to his aggressive non-compliance.

    Now, my take:
    Atkinson was on private property, picking up trash. No one called about him, as far as I'm aware, so this seems to be an officer initiated stop. I stop people for things that look suspicious, for example, looking in car windows, hiding in bushes, things that normal people don't do. I do not personally consider picking up trash to be inherently suspicious. Especially in broad daylight. I wouldn't have stopped to talk to him at all, unless someone called about him.
     

    actaeon277

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Nov 20, 2011
    92,866
    113
    Merrillville
    What was laughable was the way thr LEO described the reacher as "blunt object" while calling for back up. The reacher is commonly used by older people in the nursing home.

    Also used by a lot of people that pick up garbage.
    I have one on the hood of my riding lawn mower, with a bucket on the back of the mower.
    Because when I cut the grass at the front of the subdivision, there is a bunch of crap to pick up.
     

    actaeon277

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Nov 20, 2011
    92,866
    113
    Merrillville
    This guy was picking up trash.

    Do they have a problem in this neighborhood with people picking up trash?


    Of course, he could be "casing". But, I'd want to maybe watch him to see what he's doing.
     

    amboy49

    Master
    Rating - 83.3%
    5   1   0
    Feb 1, 2013
    2,293
    83
    central indiana
    Sorry - either poor training by his dept or poor skills on the “officer’s”part or both. SIX officers show up ? Would have been a good time to commit a robbery somewhere else in town since a lot of resources were being utilized on a guy pick up trash.

    Don't know how long the officer has been on the job - he looks very young. ( But at my age everyone looks young )

    Disclosure said he resigned two weeks later. Don’t know if he was forced to resign or he decided he wasn’t cut out to risk his life facing a guy who was a threat to his life because he was carrying a trash pickup tool.
     

    Kutnupe14

    Troll Emeritus
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 13, 2011
    40,294
    149
    I’m not real sure what the purpose of the stop and detention was. Ok, so trespass is a problem there, but trespass itself isn’t usually the issue, it’s what those trespassers are doing that’s generally the problem (harassing residents, smoking, drinking, pan handling etc...). This dude was picking up trash with tools commonly associated with that task. Also, I was in college once, and my ID absolutely did not have my dorm address on it...I don’t think anyone I knew then had their college address on their ID.

    This encounter, or the part the video shows, doesn’t seem to pass the reasonableness test we got from Graham vs. Connor. The nature and quality of the intrusion vs the government interest at stake. Unless there is more info, like a 911 call that brings the officer to that location because the suspect was being complained against for doing something I might have mentioned above, it doesn’t seem like he should have been detained at taser point.

    All I am saying is that if the officer created this encounter on his own then I can’t see a logical reason for it. There are a lot of context clues that the dude was not breaking the law.

    VU sums it up nicely.
     

    Denny347

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    21   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
    13,417
    149
    Napganistan
    I just don't see the Reasonable Suspicion for the Terry Stop but that's just my quick assessment from an outside perspective. My REAL issue is the speepish attitude towards the trash grabber. When there is little to no defensive tactics skills, self confidence is low, and it shows when an officer deals with suspects. Things can escalate quickly. With higher ability and training come greater confidence and that confidence can effectively de-escalate a situation. LE critics label cops as "trigger happy" and in many instances, we are. When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. It will eventually come back to bite us in the butt.
     

    Sigblitz

    Grandmaster
    Trainer Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    Aug 25, 2018
    14,585
    113
    Indianapolis
    He was on his property. He produced a student ID. That was enough. The officer still wanted to run him but at that point it passed the test of intrusion and he just didn't give up.
     
    Top Bottom