Job Interviews & Re-Calibrating My Perceptions

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  • rhino

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    Mar 18, 2008
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    Some of you kind souls may be aware that I've been hunting for a new job since 08/22/2018 and my layoff was effective on 11/01/2018. It's been a long journey so far and I've learned a lot of things about seeking employment and life in general. Recently I have received an upswing in initial interest in my applications and has what I thought was a great interview on Friday. I was confident that among all of the other interviews and opportunities so far that this would be a job offer in the near future. I was expecting a time frame of a few weeks for the next steps, but today (it was the first business day since the interview), I received an email from the hiring manager that I was not being considered and they were moving forward with other candidates.

    Obviously that's disappointing, but I am wondering how I could have called the situation so badly. I've been in other interviews and similar situation in which I thought I bombed, but afterward learned that I left a positive impression. In this case, I perceived that all had gone exceptionally well, in fact better than all previous interviews. So given the rapidity of the rejection, I clearly called it wrong, wrong, wrong.

    I think I need re-calibration!
     

    dprimm

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    Jan 13, 2013
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    Just West of Indianapolis
    I have been wondering if you had found anything. I really feel for you. At least they told you. So few places do that anymore.

    Shoot, one interview I had the person had clearly not looked at my application. What made me mad afterwards was I was interviewed by someone that just started on their bachelor degree when the position required a Masters degree. And I as recommended by my advisor. We talked at total different levels.

    I hate job searching. I Hate games. Let me talk w the person I will be working for or with. Not someone that has zero clue.

    Best of luck in your search. Keep your chin up, exercise, and don’t use anything sharp.
     

    Kutnupe14

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    Some times you win, sometimes you lose. Interviews are tricky things. Don't get frustrated, and keep knocking on doors. Some things to keep in mind, always have a cover letter included with an application, always carry extra resumes to the interview, and always send a thank you email afterwards. Also don't be humble. Sell yourself as being great, and the person interviewing will often see you in that way.
     

    femurphy77

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    Mar 5, 2009
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    Where are you in your career? Some places don't want to hire someone looking at retirement in a (relative) few years, it's not really legal so they'll come up with some other excuse but it's a possibility.
     

    rhino

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    Mar 18, 2008
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    Indiana
    I have been wondering if you had found anything. I really feel for you. At least they told you. So few places do that anymore.

    Shoot, one interview I had the person had clearly not looked at my application. What made me mad afterwards was I was interviewed by someone that just started on their bachelor degree when the position required a Masters degree. And I as recommended by my advisor. We talked at total different levels.

    I hate job searching. I Hate games. Let me talk w the person I will be working for or with. Not someone that has zero clue.

    Best of luck in your search. Keep your chin up, exercise, and don’t use anything sharp.


    Thank you, sir! I appreciate the support!



    Where are you in your career? Some places don't want to hire someone looking at retirement in a (relative) few years, it's not really legal so they'll come up with some other excuse but it's a possibility.


    I'm 54 and because of what you say, I have sanitized my resume to remove dates of my degrees, etc. I don't think I look 54, but during interview conversations, my responses probably make it easy to ballpark my age.

    Given that, unless something drastic happens, I don't see a path in which I could retire voluntarily, so even though a potential employer doesn't know it, I'm not planning to retire. I got a late start on making money and investing for the future, plus this setback has burned through all of my reserves and investments. It would be simpler if I was able bodied sufficiently to take any of the many jobs that are readily available in every town in Indiana, but I can't stand for very long or walk very far, which eliminates me from almost all of them. I say that not as an excuse, but it's the reason why have not done "take what you can get until something better comes along." I was doing some temp assignments, but I haven't been called back since May.

    It would be most unfortunate if I was spot-on about how well the interview went, but got passed-over because of my age or some other reason they can't reveal because it's illegal. I did reply to the email asking why I was not among the preferred applicants and if they had advice for me moving forward, but if they did something discriminatory I will never know for sure.
     

    2A.frost.SRT8

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    Don’t forget to use a different email than those associated with social media accounts or gun related sites. A lot of quiet anti 2nd interviewers run searches to see if you may be a potential risk... and any result showing you are pro 2nd gets you axed from the list. I typically make a job Facebook application account with only job related posts... I know my old job did this and most tech jobs I’ve applied for prior.

    Best of luck to you. I too hate job searching... been to a ton of interviews where they falsely say they will be getting back with you shortly and how they look forward to bringing you on board only to ghost you and not reply to follow up calls or emails.

    Lockheed Martin out of Fort Knox screwed me once by saying I was hired and to put in 2 weeks at Dell. I got authorization to go on base, did the background check crap, and the whole this is where you will be reporting. Only to show up for my first official day and find out the position was dissolved and got no prior heads up. Went back to Dell and of course my old position was already filled.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    shootersix

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    Mar 10, 2009
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    keep your chin up, all this means is the right job hasent found you!, i know your discouraged, but when the right job happens, both you and your new employer will be happy with you!

    i had an interview about 20 years ago with one of the largest print shops in the area, i knew the assistant plant forman, and the shop manager at another location, and the interview was horriable, lots of silence, long periods of uncomfortble quiet, i left the interview, drove home, called the plant foreman i knew and thanked him for the help getting in the door, and was in the process of telling him that i didnt think i got the job, when i got the call from the assistant plant foreman asking me to call to set up a pre employment physical!...so never take a "read" off an interview!!!! (long story short, the current employer threw lots of money and other incentives to stay, now 12 years later i'm still at the first job, and 5 years ago the place i interviewd at is closed)

    but you'll find the right fit for you! ill say a prayer for you that you find the right place!
     

    KellyinAvon

    Blue-ID Mafia Consigliere
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    Good luck Rhino, there is something out there for you. If the place isn’t smart enough to hire you, you don’t wanna work there anyway.
     

    Classic

    Master
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    0   1   0
    Aug 28, 2011
    3,420
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    Madison County
    Don't give up. I'm job hunting right now too and I'm much older than you - not planning to retire either. The right job will show up.
     

    rhino

    Grandmaster
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    Mar 18, 2008
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    You've been bathing, right?


    In all seriousness, hang in there. Sooner or later something has to work out.

    On rare occasion. And I've even been wearing long pants and a freakin' tie. It's been decades since I wore a tie prior to recent interviews. UGH. Ties suck. Long pants suck.



    Don’t forget to use a different email than those associated with social media accounts or gun related sites. A lot of quiet anti 2nd interviewers run searches to see if you may be a potential risk... and any result showing you are pro 2nd gets you axed from the list. I typically make a job Facebook application account with only job related posts... I know my old job did this and most tech jobs I’ve applied for prior.

    Best of luck to you. I too hate job searching... been to a ton of interviews where they falsely say they will be getting back with you shortly and how they look forward to bringing you on board only to ghost you and not reply to follow up calls or emails.

    Lockheed Martin out of Fort Knox screwed me once by saying I was hired and to put in 2 weeks at Dell. I got authorization to go on base, did the background check crap, and the whole this is where you will be reporting. Only to show up for my first official day and find out the position was dissolved and got no prior heads up. Went back to Dell and of course my old position was already filled.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    That's good advice. The only "social media" I use is LinkedIn. Any data that the Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter have about me arose from third parties and I doubt if potential employers are able to garner much from Facebook's et all "shadow profiles" of me. I'm not sure how a web search would connect my real email address with anything I post on INGO or BushcraftUSA, but I suppose it's possible.


    keep your chin up, all this means is the right job hasent found you!, i know your discouraged, but when the right job happens, both you and your new employer will be happy with you!

    i had an interview about 20 years ago with one of the largest print shops in the area, i knew the assistant plant forman, and the shop manager at another location, and the interview was horriable, lots of silence, long periods of uncomfortble quiet, i left the interview, drove home, called the plant foreman i knew and thanked him for the help getting in the door, and was in the process of telling him that i didnt think i got the job, when i got the call from the assistant plant foreman asking me to call to set up a pre employment physical!...so never take a "read" off an interview!!!! (long story short, the current employer threw lots of money and other incentives to stay, now 12 years later i'm still at the first job, and 5 years ago the place i interviewd at is closed)

    but you'll find the right fit for you! ill say a prayer for you that you find the right place!

    Thanks for the support. You're right about reading interviews. There are too many factors (known and unknown) out of our control, so there is no point in worrying over it afterward except to use as a tool for improvement.


    Good luck Rhino, there is something out there for you. If the place isn’t smart enough to hire you, you don’t wanna work there anyway.

    Thank you, sir!


    I've helped a lot of folks with their resumes, would be happy to take a look at yours. Feel free to send me a message.

    That is a very generous offer! Thank you! I shall do so.


    Don't give up. I'm job hunting right now too and I'm much older than you - not planning to retire either. The right job will show up.

    Thank you as well, sir!
     

    drillsgt

    Grandmaster
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    108   0   0
    Nov 29, 2009
    9,627
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    Sioux Falls, SD
    Don't take it too hard, oftentimes they know already who they want for the position and are just going through the motions to satisfy HR/Dept requirements etc. It sucks that your time can be potentially wasted like that but it happens more than people know.
     

    rhino

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    24   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
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    Indiana
    Don't take it too hard, oftentimes they know already who they want for the position and are just going through the motions to satisfy HR/Dept requirements etc. It sucks that your time can be potentially wasted like that but it happens more than people know.

    Thank you, sir.

    My actual concern with respect to this topic isn't the disappointment of the rejection, but rather the disconnect between my perception of the interview and what was clearly a very different take on the same experience by two other people.
     

    Mr. Habib

    Master
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    0   0   0
    Mar 4, 2009
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    Somewhere else
    Don't take it too hard, oftentimes they know already who they want for the position and are just going through the motions to satisfy HR/Dept requirements etc. It sucks that your time can be potentially wasted like that but it happens more than people know.

    This^^ The position that my wife currently has she was ask personally by the hiring manager, her current boss, to apply. She essentially had the job before she even walked in the building. They interviewed one other person right after her who probably never knew that he didn't stand a chance. I've left interviews certain that I would be getting an offer, only to open a ' you suck, we hired someone
    else' email a few days later. It happens. Just know that this does not reflect negatively on you.
     

    jsharmon7

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    119   0   0
    Nov 24, 2008
    7,821
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    Freedonia
    Rhino, I’m with you. I’ve had interviews I thought went awful and gotten the job, and then I thought I did fine on another one and apparently did pretty badly. It can be hard to gauge because you’re so caught up in the performance aspect of “interviewing.”
     

    maxwelhse

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    0   0   0
    Aug 21, 2018
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    Michiana
    Some times you win, sometimes you lose. Interviews are tricky things. Don't get frustrated, and keep knocking on doors. Some things to keep in mind, always have a cover letter included with an application, always carry extra resumes to the interview, and always send a thank you email afterwards. Also don't be humble. Sell yourself as being great, and the person interviewing will often see you in that way.

    Nearly word for word what I was going to write.

    I'll add a couple of things though... Unless expressly asked not to (or through a recruiter who will forward your correspondence), I still prefer to follow-up with an actual mailed thank-you letter and I also still overnight them. It's old school as hell, but I've heard from more than one hiring manager that I was the only applicant that bothered to do so. I won't get, or not get, the job based on that alone, but it helps illustrate that I'm serious. I also, always, make mention of something about the position that we touched on, but not a lot, and illustrate excitement over it (doesn't matter if you're excited about it or... pick something and say something about it so they know you were paying attention... company culture, tuition reimbursement because you've always wanted to hang yourself with thoughts of being in a classroom again, whatever).

    Also, obviously, look your absolute best unless requested not to (I've been asked not to wear a suit on some interviews).

    And... To touch on something Kut also said, yes bring extra copies of your resume and cover letter (and a bunch of them... I've interviewed with as many as 10 people before and had no idea what I walking into), but have them neatly organized and not in your shirt pocket or something. I bought a $10 "leather" document folder for this purpose. I also keep a pen and pad in there so I can take notes (and you should take a few... Names and titles at a minimum because you won't always get a card from everybody you talk to) and it's a handy place to store business cards that interviewers will give you. Basically, I'm telling you to have your business squared away and look like a person that is organized and ready to work. I'll also put it out there that ages ago I was given the tip to get some decent stationary for my resume (and I also got matching envelopes for said thank you letters) and not just regular copy paper. In the pile of documents on a hiring manager's desk, they're going to remember you as soon as they see the nice paper. The same $20 box has lasted me since 2005. If you can dig a little deeper in your pocket, have them laser printed as well so they won't smudge as they're handled.

    So, again, like some of the other guys are saying, it's a crap shoot. You never will truly know why you either did, or did not, get that call you thought was coming. I've gotten offers from the worst interviews in my life and never heard a peep back about the best. What I'm suggesting is that you set yourself a part from the heard in small ways that most other people won't. Especially since you're more experienced in your career, you need to illustrate that experience and show them you're a pro and not a new grad.

    As far as actual interview technique, everything you say you should be able to point to a bullet on your resume with an example, and preferable with data. If you're in sales and sold $X of whatever and won some achievement award, that should be on your resume. When I'm asked to talk about my experience in an interview I will actually put my finger on each bullet, read it aloud, and then within the next 30-60 seconds discuss my actual experience with that bullet. One of mine is "train junior team members... (with whatever skills I taught them)". I would quickly say that Joe was a new grad with no widget management experience and I took him under my wing to understand the widget budget, timelines, deadlines, etc, etc, whatever. Stuff like that. Be direct, pointed, and tie it to literal experiences you can discuss. If after a year of training Joe was running the widget factory while you supervised, you were an instrumental part of his success. If Joe was still useless, stop talking about Joe...

    Another fairly common thing you'll be exposed to in a modern interview is "behavior questions". They're designed to be tricky and to screw you up. They're generally going to start with "Tell me about a time...". Again, quickly scan your resume, pick a bullet that applies to the (often asinine) question, and run with an answer. The questions are less about your answers and more about your reaction to them. So... Don't lock up and require a reboot. Just stick to the script that you brought in with you.

    Lastly, there are a lot of public resources that will provide you with free resume reviews and mock interviews (your university likely being the first stop, if possible). Take advantage of all of them that you can, with as many different interviewers as possible, until you're comfortable. You can even have your family interview you.

    Unfortunately, I've been the victim of plenty of layoffs myself and have interviewed way more times than I ever wanted. Hopefully some of the things I've learned a long the way are of use to you. Good luck!
     

    maxwelhse

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    Aug 21, 2018
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    This^^ The position that my wife currently has she was ask personally by the hiring manager, her current boss, to apply. She essentially had the job before she even walked in the building. They interviewed one other person right after her who probably never knew that he didn't stand a chance. I've left interviews certain that I would be getting an offer, only to open a ' you suck, we hired someone
    else' email a few days later. It happens. Just know that this does not reflect negatively on you.


    This happened to me as well... and 3 months later they called me back in when another position opened up, which resulted in an offer I accepted. Interviews are never wasted and you really never know what the future will bring. You could interview with a hiring manager that quits 2 months later and calls you out of the blue from his next job. You just never know...

    In that exact case, they hired a guy with exactly my identical qualifications, but also an MBA (which he never used). He left the company within a year and on the way out I learned they paid him an entire extra $2500 a year for the graduate degree... Pfft.. I'll take my chances.

    On rare occasion. And I've even been wearing long pants and a freakin' tie. It's been decades since I wore a tie prior to recent interviews. UGH. Ties suck. Long pants suck.

    I realize this is a joke, but if you're not putting on at least a jacket too, you need to. If the interview is appropriate for a tie, it's appropriate for a suit. I know it sucks to go out and drop a few hundo on some clothes you don't even want, right when you don't have a job, but it's a requirement. I also hate wearing real clothes, but I like eating...
     

    rhino

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    Mar 18, 2008
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    Rhino, I’m with you. I’ve had interviews I thought went awful and gotten the job, and then I thought I did fine on another one and apparently did pretty badly. It can be hard to gauge because you’re so caught up in the performance aspect of “interviewing.”

    Indeed.


    Nearly word for word what I was going to write.

    I'll add a couple of things though... Unless expressly asked not to (or through a recruiter who will forward your correspondence), I still prefer to follow-up with an actual mailed thank-you letter and I also still overnight them. It's old school as hell, but I've heard from more than one hiring manager that I was the only applicant that bothered to do so. I won't get, or not get, the job based on that alone, but it helps illustrate that I'm serious. I also, always, make mention of something about the position that we touched on, but not a lot, and illustrate excitement over it (doesn't matter if you're excited about it or... pick something and say something about it so they know you were paying attention... company culture, tuition reimbursement because you've always wanted to hang yourself with thoughts of being in a classroom again, whatever).

    That's good advice on something to include in the thank you note. However, in order to accomplish the task, I would have had to use Sherman & Mr. Peabody's WayBack Machine to get a letter to them. I interviewed near close of business on Friday and the hiring manager sent the email rejection early this morning. I did send a "thank you" email that was waiting for her, but it appears that the decision was made before I left the room. I recall now that they told me I was the first person to interview, and it's nigh impossible that they interviewed anyone between my appointment and when they sent the rejection email. That's a datum I need to file away as well.


    Also, obviously, look your absolute best unless requested not to (I've been asked not to wear a suit on some interviews).

    I had my best interview clothes, a professional haircut, and I was not sweaty. I can't do better than that.


    And... To touch on something Kut also said, yes bring extra copies of your resume and cover letter (and a bunch of them... I've interviewed with as many as 10 people before and had no idea what I walking into), but have them neatly organized and not in your shirt pocket or something. I bought a $10 "leather" document folder for this purpose. I also keep a pen and pad in there so I can take notes (and you should take a few... Names and titles at a minimum because you won't always get a card from everybody you talk to) and it's a handy place to store business cards that interviewers will give you. Basically, I'm telling you to have your business squared away and look like a person that is organized and ready to work. I'll also put it out there that ages ago I was given the tip to get some decent stationary for my resume (and I also got matching envelopes for said thank you letters) and not just regular copy paper. In the pile of documents on a hiring manager's desk, they're going to remember you as soon as they see the nice paper. The same $20 box has lasted me since 2005. If you can dig a little deeper in your pocket, have them laser printed as well so they won't smudge as they're handled.

    I had printed copies of my resume ready in my portfolio that I carry to interviews. One of the two hiring me had a hard copy of my resume in front of her. I offered a copy to the other person and he declined because he had a hard copy on his desk.

    Years ago I printed my resume on high quality stationery paper, but that was when I was sending the paper through the mail. I can see why it would be beneficial to have a few nice copies, especially job fairs and the like when you're doing cold meetings.


    So, again, like some of the other guys are saying, it's a crap shoot. You never will truly know why you either did, or did not, get that call you thought was coming. I've gotten offers from the worst interviews in my life and never heard a peep back about the best. What I'm suggesting is that you set yourself a part from the heard in small ways that most other people won't. Especially since you're more experienced in your career, you need to illustrate that experience and show them you're a pro and not a new grad.

    The whys and why nots will always be a mystery unless they deign to tell you. At my last job, I was told why I was being hired (before my interview) and reminded of it a few times since then by the guy who hired me. However, my current point of interest is the stark difference between how I felt the interview goes vs. how the other person thinks it went.
     

    maxwelhse

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    However, my current point of interest is the stark difference between how I felt the interview goes vs. how the other person thinks it went.

    Honestly, I think this is just going to be one of life's mysteries for all of us... Ever been out on a date with a girl that you liked, but didn't like you? Who knows?

    You can also go about this in the opposite direction and simply ask the hiring manager what qualifications they felt you could have worked harder on to be a better candidate for the position. My gut feeling is that will result in no response, but, maybe?

    Genuinely, good luck in your search. I know it gets demoralizing after awhile.
     
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