Vapers - Any Worries Now?

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  • DoggyDaddy

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    Aug 18, 2011
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    I'm a smoker. A real smoker. Been smoking for 43 years. First let me say that I'm not defending smoking... it's a disgusting habit, and I own that. But for anyone that's switched to vaping, what are your thoughts on these sudden deaths from vaping? I mean, everyone knows that smoking tobacco in its traditional forms is bad for you, but vaping was sold to the public as the "safe" alternative. I was skeptical from the beginning (besides not wanting to "smoke" Cinnamon Buns, or Blueberry or whatever). Now it's beginning to look like vaping may actually be worse than smoking.

    To me it's similar to telling us that real butter is bad for us, but margarine is good! And then they find that the trans-fats in margarine are actually worse than butter. Same with eggs... They're bad for you! Oh wait, maybe not... :rolleyes:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/health/vapi...related-illness-6th-death-nationwide-n1051866
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Watch the news VERY closely. While regular vaping is still yet to be determined exactly how safe it is, current indications that the worst cases we are hearing about appear to be linked to additives and black market liquids.

    So far the coverage Ive seen is you should be OK vaping so long as you only buy from reputable sources. (and dont add THC, Vitamin E, etc to your juice)

    Prior to this all you would hear about are cases of "wet lung". While bad, if treated is not deadly.
     

    churchmouse

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    I would as soon be around a real smoker as some of these guys putting out "HUGE" clouds of smoke. They cradle the device like it is an addiction. Kind of un-nerving.
     

    rkwhyte2

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    I vape and have for the last 7 years. Started off with the Blu ecigs and today have a nice mod(the battery/circuit board box) and a nice sub ohm tank. It can produce huge clouds of vapor if that is what you want. I don't use it that way. Do I need it for the nicotine? Nope I can go all day without needing to take a "smoke" break. If I had to stop this tomorrow I could and would never start back with cigs. Just my :twocents:
     

    churchmouse

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    I vape and have for the last 7 years. Started off with the Blu ecigs and today have a nice mod(the battery/circuit board box) and a nice sub ohm tank. It can produce huge clouds of vapor if that is what you want. I don't use it that way. Do I need it for the nicotine? Nope I can go all day without needing to take a "smoke" break. If I had to stop this tomorrow I could and would never start back with cigs. Just my :twocents:

    OK now that is just to confusing to me but no matter. Your deal all the way.

    Smoke-em if you got-em
     

    Ziggidy

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    ANY foreign substance you put in your lungs is not good; none of it is "safe".

    For the record, "wet lung", can be fatal if it progresses.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    ANY foreign substance you put in your lungs is not good; none of it is "safe".

    For the record, "wet lung", can be fatal if it progresses.

    Like I said, If treated...

    I'm not advocating that vaping is safe. Just folks are getting all nervous because some jackwagons are using downright harmful juice.

    It would be like this walmart ammo ban causing a bunch of morons to decide to start reloading, and they decide to reload without getting any instruction. "this random powder looks like it will work" "How much do I put in? I'll try this random amount." Suddenly there is a rash of guns blowing up and people getting hurt because they used too much of the wrong powder. Does that mean that all reloading isnt safe? No. That appears to be what we are dealing with here; Idiots doing it wrong, making it look to the world like the whole lot are going to die next month.
     

    femurphy77

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    Mar 5, 2009
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    Do some research; they have lots of reported cases of lung issues, seizures and yes now deaths as a result of vaping. Juul is under investigation for various issues and this only adds to their woes.
     

    bwframe

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    Isn't the harmful juice the liquid THC (pot) ?

    Didn't I hear that the THC mix has vitamin E of some sort in it that may be the killer?
     

    Kurr

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    May 18, 2011
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    Aye, vitamen E acetate i think, its an oil, you can heat it to vapor but when it cools it goes back to an oil and yer lungs cant process it. Bad stuff!

    I got off all flavored juices because of fear of adulterants a couple years ago. I buy my nicotine in 100mg str, i think i paid 11.00 a year ago for it, and use USP grade glycerin for the carrier.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    And I am stating it is all downright harmful (not just "some); not just some jackwagons. It's all bad.


    I agree, and we are actually on the same page.

    Just like a little booze isnt good for you and will shorten your life a tiny bit, and too much booze is bad for your liver and will kill you. But the wrong bathtub booze is deadly and will drop you like a bad habit.
     

    455 Beretta

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    Sep 20, 2013
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    Aye, vitamen E acetate i think, its an oil, you can heat it to vapor but when it cools it goes back to an oil and yer lungs cant process it. Bad stuff!

    I got off all flavored juices because of fear of adulterants a couple years ago. I buy my nicotine in 100mg str, i think i paid 11.00 a year ago for it, and use USP grade glycerin for the carrier.

    So doesn’t glycerin condense back out as liquid in the lungs after it cools? What’s its effect on the lungs?
     

    Kurr

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    So doesn’t glycerin condense back out as liquid in the lungs after it cools? What’s its effect on the lungs?

    IAND (I am not a doctor) but this sums up what i have read and know of it pretty well:

    Dow Chemical are currently persuading their pharmaceutical industry B2B clients to shift from using PG (propylene glycol) as the most often used excipient in inhalable medicines and therapies to glycerol (glycerine, glycerin, VG) instead, with their product Dow Optim. This is a pure, synthetic glycerol.

    They would not be doing this unless they believed that glycerol (propane 2,3 triol) has less implications for health, and, probably more importantly here, less minor irritation issues than PG (propane 1,2 diol), which has been inhaled medically for 70 years and is regarded as inert for inhalables (it has been the principal excipient used in asthma inhalers and lung transplant patients' nebulisers for decades). In other words they think glycerine, if it can be manufactured as a pure material, has less potential for any kind of issues than PG; and reduction of minor throat irritation (the drying-out effect) is likely to be a factor.

    Someone asked me if pulmonary oedema might be an issue with glycerol (aka 'wet lung' or ARDS), so I asked Prof Polosa, who is the expert on this and similar issues [1]. He stated that no case of it had been noted after at least 10 years of use, so the possibility is very low or non-existent. He also pointed out that a suggested association with lipoid pneumonia was not possible either, since these materials (glycerol and glycols for inhalation duty) are alcohols, and medical opinion is that it is impossible to associate inhalation of alcohols with lipoid pneumonia.
    **************************

    Now to be fair , I use a good dose of nicotine, I like it strong, and although nicotine is not carcinogenic, it think it has been shown to increase tumor growth. So if i develop a tumor somewhere, I'll have to nix the nicotine.
     

    Dean C.

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    Aug 25, 2013
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    It is my understanding that these deaths / hospitalizations are the result of "dab pens" which is basically just very concentrated THC suspended in a suspended medium.

    Thing is these "carts" as they are often refferd to as are mostly made by drug dealers (same idiots cutting Heroin with Fentanyl) so people are getting heavy metals , Vitamin E Oil (the cause of the lipid pneumonia cases) and even heavy duty pesticides.

    Of course the kids these things happens to aren't going to say they were hitting their "dab pens" just getting caught with one of these concentrate pens is felony possession. But they are popular with kids because there is little to no smell and most people when they see a dab pen just think it's an "normal" E-cig.

    As I have said many times before, can we please just make marijuana legal?!? The tax revenue would be nice, it would potentially cut 30% of the Mexican Cartels sales as well. Interesting slightly off topic book would be Hidden War about LEO's having to deal with cartel growing operations in national parks in the US.

    Sorry for getting slightly off topic but there is a lot of bad information out right now about this particular issue...
     

    Cameramonkey

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    35   0   0
    May 12, 2013
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    IAND (I am not a doctor) but this sums up what i have read and know of it pretty well:

    Dow Chemical are currently persuading their pharmaceutical industry B2B clients to shift from using PG (propylene glycol) as the most often used excipient in inhalable medicines and therapies to glycerol (glycerine, glycerin, VG) instead, with their product Dow Optim. This is a pure, synthetic glycerol.

    They would not be doing this unless they believed that glycerol (propane 2,3 triol) has less implications for health, and, probably more importantly here, less minor irritation issues than PG (propane 1,2 diol), which has been inhaled medically for 70 years and is regarded as inert for inhalables (it has been the principal excipient used in asthma inhalers and lung transplant patients' nebulisers for decades). In other words they think glycerine, if it can be manufactured as a pure material, has less potential for any kind of issues than PG; and reduction of minor throat irritation (the drying-out effect) is likely to be a factor.

    Someone asked me if pulmonary oedema might be an issue with glycerol (aka 'wet lung' or ARDS), so I asked Prof Polosa, who is the expert on this and similar issues [1]. He stated that no case of it had been noted after at least 10 years of use, so the possibility is very low or non-existent. He also pointed out that a suggested association with lipoid pneumonia was not possible either, since these materials (glycerol and glycols for inhalation duty) are alcohols, and medical opinion is that it is impossible to associate inhalation of alcohols with lipoid pneumonia.
    **************************

    Now to be fair , I use a good dose of nicotine, I like it strong, and although nicotine is not carcinogenic, it think it has been shown to increase tumor growth. So if i develop a tumor somewhere, I'll have to nix the nicotine.

    No offense to you, but I call bull :poop: .

    It aint necessarily about safety. It could also be about them being able to produce their product as much in-house as possible without paying somebody else for the carrier/base. Now if they were pushing to use another open market chemical as a base, I might agree with you. But I look upon moves like this warily. Not saying they are not interested in our health, just that its not necessarily a primary driver.

    And even if its going to cost them a little more, its a wedge for them to be able to tell the FDA "See, its safer, EVERYONE should use this synthetic base from now on!" and suddenly their competition is now encouraged/forced to buy the Dow carrier product instead of some other provider.
     
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