Advice please ref: son “shooting” at us

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  • dprimm

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    I am out of ideas. Going to reach out to the vast experience and knowledge of INGO.

    My 5 year old tends to “shoot” mom, dad, and/or grandma when he gets mad. Points his finger like a gun and goes ‘pew’.

    This has been going on quite a while. Last Christmas we gave him nerf guns do he could start w the rules early. Those he loses when he aims those at a person. Basically (here is hoping I don’t jinx things) that problem has stopped.

    But the finger thing; I am at a loss. Consequences only upset him - they are NOT rescinded.

    I took him him to the range and showed him what happens to water jugs when they are shot. And he has seen the deer I have shot.

    I am at a loss. I hate to imagine the possible consequences if he does it at school. Frankly I am tired of it at home. I would love to start introducing BB guns but this behavior has me hesitant.

    What, oh great INGO, does your experience say?

    Thankyou.
     

    MCgrease08

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    I could see why this would cause some level of concern, primarily because as you mentioned, he will likely end up in trouble if he does it at school.

    That said, he probably will grow out of it and I personally wouldn't worry too much about it at home, provided he is an otherwise normal, well adjusted kid.

    Good on you for starting to teach safe gun handling, but a NERF gun and darts is made to shoot at people. I spent hundreds of hours having NERF wars with friends when I was a kid. I would suggest getting your own NERF gun and having some safe and controlled battles with him at home. I would suggest keeping the safety talk to the importance of eye pro, and not pointing the gun at himself.

    Right now he is doing finger guns when he gets mad, so he is associating shooting with the emotion of anger. By playing games and having fun shooting the NERF guns, you may be able to change that association to "shooting = fun with Dad" and he'll quit doing it when he gets mad.

    As he gets older let him know there is a time and place for safety. Have those deeper discussions separate from play. Target shooting is a good time for it, but make it known, right not we're shooting at targets, not each other.

    Also at some point you'll have to tell him that "we don't talk about guns at school because some people don't like guns."

    It's sad we've gotten to that point, but that's due to years of stigmatizing gun owners and is best discussed in another thread.
     

    91FXRS

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    Continue with the consequences and teach him that they will continue until he changes. He will get the point quickly if everyone he does it to is consistent.... I used to have a gym teacher that we swore was a robot(long story) but I will never forget what he always taught.....repetition is the key to learning.
     

    Hoosierdood

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    The problem isn't the finger gun, it is his anger issues.

    I am a firm believer that parents are responsible for TEACHING their children how to handle frustration, anger, and disappointment. Kids don't just figure it out on their own. That's your job to train them. I don't mean to be rude, but if he is 5 and hasn't learned how to deal with anger yet, then you have missed an opportunity somewhere along the way.

    I also believe that children respond best to pain. When my oldest was 3, and her sister was 2, she would bite her little sister. Maybe it was jealousy, maybe it was just because. When she would do that, I would take her finger and bite it. Hard enough to leave a short term indentation in her finger. She cried. It hurt. It only took about 3-4 times and she stopped biting her sister. If he shoots you with a nerf dart, don't take the dart away. Make it hurt.

    Sure, it's no fun to have to discipline your kids, but I go back to the fact that it is YOUR responsibility to train them. Temporary discomfort is way better than having your son lose his temper 15 years down the road at the wrong time and land himself in jail or the morgue.

    Time-outs aren't enough. Taking toys isn't enough. As the boys father, you need to help him learn to handle his anger, and you need to do it fast. Trust me, it's much easier to do it now, than when he is 10.

    Sorry if I come across as a dick here. That's not my intention. Just trying to give candid, honest advice. Be the dad that he needs you to be. You got this!


    ETA- I am the proud father of 4 honest, respectful teenagers. They are not perfect. They make mistakes. I still have to discipline them. My methods have changed, but my consistency has not. It has not been easy and my heart has ached many times from having to discipline them. But I can say that my efforts have helped mold them into the young people they are today, and I would put their level of responsibility up against ANY 20-something year old today.
    .
     
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    Cameramonkey

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    Talk to him about it as soon as he does it. Ask him what it means to him to do that. What is he trying to convey? What is he thinking when he does it.

    And approach it delicately, not with anger but with soft, non angry/aggressive attitude.

    EDIT: I realized I didn’t finish my thought. Use the info you get from him to understand whether you need to seek professional mental help. Is it harmless, or is he channeling that blonde kid on the twilight zone that the entire town was afraid of because he could make you literally disappear if he was angry with you?
     
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    Rookie

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    My father's favorite saying when I was growing up...

    When you feel the heat, you see the light.

    My kids heard/experienced it from me too.
     

    Rookie

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    One other thing I noticed, "Consequences only upset him"

    That's because the consequences aren't effective. I never thought, "I'm mad at my dad because he disciplined me ". I always thought, "That hurt. I shouldn't do that again!"
     

    OutdoorDad

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    Talk to him about it as soon as he does it. Ask him what it means to him to do that. What is he trying to convey? What is he thinking when he does it.

    And approach it delicately, not with anger but with soft, non angry/aggressive attitude.

    Had this exact conversation 50+ years ago with my Dad. No anger involved. Just really wanted a bb gun. Practicing my trigger control when my sister was in the room.

    "Why would you do that when you want a BB gun and no one is going to let you have one unless everyone feels secure that they aren't going to get hit with a BB? "

    Followed by a quick story about how his older brother lost his BB gun for shooting him in the butt when he was 4 or 5 years old.

    End of activity.

    Never shot anyone in the butt with a BB gun.



    Well, until I was in my 20's, and I was dared... and the target was deserving.
     

    Hawkeye7br

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    You've had a lot of good advice. Spank his butt & let him know that pouting his finger gun will get him a very whuppin. If he does it at school, he will get suspended or expelled and then your wife will have to quit her job to stay home and home school him. Don't ask me how I know this....
     

    mensajess

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    Reminds me of my nephew's preschool banning finger guns and saying "bang bang" a few years ago. ALL the boys just changed to their own words for "bang", my nephew choose "meatball" for some reason. You would just be sitting at their house and he would run in, point at you, yell "meatball, meatball", and run off.
    I think everyone does it for a time, everyone grows out of it. Fighting it just changes it to something funny.
     

    Spear Dane

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    "Consequences only upset him - they are NOT rescinded." Why would you say this? Who gives a turd that he is upset by consequences?? THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT!! You are trying intellectual persuasion and it is not working. Let him do it again and immediately snatch his a$$ up and spank him. A Jackson says that is the last time you ever see him do that.
     

    Thor

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    Discipline, sounds like some might be needed all around. You to take responsibility, he to be taught it. If he's acting out in anger now and there are no immediate memories of negative consequences what will happen if he still harbors these issues as an adult? His actions are not the same as playing Cowboys and Indians, they are more the raising of the middle finger.

    The divide between thought and action needs to be separated by a vast cavern of taught morality, not a crack in the sidewalk that will easily be stepped over. The path needs to be a bridge to the correct action, not an open selection to chaos. You choose the method but make it stick, make it last.
     

    churchmouse

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    Discipline, sounds like some might be needed all around. You to take responsibility, he to be taught it. If he's acting out in anger now and there are no immediate memories of negative consequences what will happen if he still harbors these issues as an adult? His actions are not the same as playing Cowboys and Indians, they are more the raising of the middle finger.

    The divide between thought and action needs to be separated by a vast cavern of taught morality, not a crack in the sidewalk that will easily be stepped over. The path needs to be a bridge to the correct action, not an open selection to chaos. You choose the method but make it stick, make it last.

    You just described the trials and tribulations of serious parenting. We are not a friend. We are a parent. If we do that part correctly there will be plenty of time for being a friend later. But you will "Always" be a parent.

    Now that we have grand kids we can be different with them but even that has responsibility.

    Set boundary's that teach. Stick to them. Period. If the child see's a chink in the armor they will squeeze trough it. That is what they do. It is what I did. And my parents put me back in the boundary's and stiffened them. Sometimes too much but then again, they responded to my actions.
     

    Thor

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    You just described the trials and tribulations of serious parenting. We are not a friend. We are a parent. If we do that part correctly there will be plenty of time for being a friend later. But you will "Always" be a parent.

    Now that we have grand kids we can be different with them but even that has responsibility.

    Set boundary's that teach. Stick to them. Period. If the child see's a chink in the armor they will squeeze trough it. That is what they do. It is what I did. And my parents put me back in the boundary's and stiffened them. Sometimes too much but then again, they responded to my actions.

    Thanks CM. It's not the easy path but it is the right one. Make a difference now so you won't be an example of how not to do it in the future.

    In the end they will appreciate you much more for what you did than what you didn't do; their lives will be better for it.
     

    churchmouse

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    Thanks CM. It's not the easy path but it is the right one. Make a difference now so you won't be an example of how not to do it in the future.

    In the end they will appreciate you much more for what you did than what you didn't do; their lives will be better for it.

    The term "Tough Love" comes to mind.
    If you are putting a child in check for their actions and they get mad at you for this.....and you let that go you have already lost.
     

    dprimm

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    Right now I don’t have time toreply individually but a couple more things. We have gotten him to where most of the time (he IS 5) he has appropriate releases of anger. Much better than a year ago. Heck, I struggle at time w appropriate anger release.

    When I said consequences make him upset, I should have said they can snowball. We don’t back down, just something we dread.

    Time to leave for work. Sounds like we are on the right track. Many things suggested we have done and solved many growing issues. This one just needs more time patience and energy. Kind of nice to know that.

    I still need to do an INGO meet and greet at my house.

    Late. Later
     

    churchmouse

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    Right now I don’t have time toreply individually but a couple more things. We have gotten him to where most of the time (he IS 5) he has appropriate releases of anger. Much better than a year ago. Heck, I struggle at time w appropriate anger release.

    When I said consequences make him upset, I should have said they can snowball. We don’t back down, just something we dread.

    Time to leave for work. Sounds like we are on the right track. Many things suggested we have done and solved many growing issues. This one just needs more time patience and energy. Kind of nice to know that.

    I still need to do an INGO meet and greet at my house.

    Late. Later

    Sounds like you are moving in the right direction.

    My response was from what I have seen in this life. Mothers allowing the child to set the tone when 5 and under and then trying to get proper discipline etc established later on. You have set the tone by 5 years old. They are like a puppy. Whatever you allow now will be the norm later.

    I do believe we all wish you the very best in this.
     

    HoughMade

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    Next incident:

    1. Warning with explanation.

    2. Warning with explanation.

    3. Punishment with "you've been warned."

    Next incident after that:

    1. Punishment with "you've been warned."

    Next incident after that:

    1. Punishment with "you've been warned."

    (you get the idea)

    You should know what punishment will be effective, but it needs to be a real, unpleasant consequence, consistently applied.
     
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    bwframe

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    Very good advice here!

    Kids want discipline on top of needing it. They want to know exactly what is right and wrong. It is the parents JOB to provide this.

    Sometimes all jobs suck, but you still have to do the job.
     
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