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Thread: UAW On Strike

  1. #141
    Grandmaster jamil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by HoughMade View Post
    We're trying to change a worldview from what to what?
    Well, not "we". I'm uninvolved other than suggesting that rolly eyes are insufficient to change the thing that caused you to say what you said, to what would cause you to be more sympathetic to the union's cause, which seemed like what he was trying to do. If that answers the question, good for us. Or is the question more about why a worldview would matter? But that seems self-evident.
    -spreading the word to end the r-word is retarded
    -activism is retarded because, what if youre full of ****?

  2. #142
    Grandmaster HoughMade's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamil View Post
    Well, not "we". I'm uninvolved other than suggesting that rolly eyes are insufficient to change the thing that caused you to say what you said, to what would cause you to be more sympathetic to the union's cause, which seemed like what he was trying to do. If that answers the question, good for us. Or is the question more about why a worldview would matter? But that seems self-evident.
    I don't quite know what sympathy has to do with negotiating a contract.

    UAW won't work until a contract is hammered out. Their right, certainly.

    GM won't pay them for not working....entirely reasonable, everyone agrees...and as far as I can tell, is not obligated to pay benefits for employees...who are not working. Now, they could for PR purposes, but they don't have to.

    The workers will not lose their insurance, though it may be a paperwork headache. Actions...or inactions, have consequences. Expecting to be paid by the employer during a strike, and benefits are pay, is a little strange.

    Trying to turn a contract negotiation that hinges upon dollars into "we are good guys and they are bad guys" is clever, but transparent. One side wants to pay less to get its products made. The other wants them to pay more. Negotiations take place until something both sides can live with is figured out.

    This is not an issue of rightness and wrongness or principle...unless the principle is "I want more profit for what I do"- and both sides share that principle.
    ​Bullies suck. They also make you stronger.

  3. #143
    Grandmaster jamil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by HoughMade View Post
    I don't quite know what sympathy has to do with negotiating a contract.

    UAW won't work until a contract is hammered out. Their right, certainly.

    GM won't pay them for not working....entirely reasonable, everyone agrees...and as far as I can tell, is not obligated to pay benefits for employees...who are not working. Now, they could for PR purposes, but they don't have to.

    The workers will not lose their insurance, though it may be a paperwork headache. Actions...or inactions, have consequences. Expecting to be paid by the employer during a strike, and benefits are pay, is a little strange.

    Trying to turn a contract negotiation that hinges upon dollars into "we are good guys and they are bad guys" is clever, but transparent. One side wants to pay less to get its products made. The other wants them to pay more. Negotiations take place until something both sides can live with is figured out.

    This is not an issue of rightness and wrongness or principle...unless the principle is "I want more profit for what I do"- and both sides share that principle.
    "I give up. " removes the consideration of facts and reasonable contract negotiation, towards the realm of moral reasoning, and thus the good guys, bad guys discussion. Worldview is then the deciding factor on who's the good guy, who's the bad guy, and even if it is really about facts or feelings.
    Last edited by jamil; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:02.
    -spreading the word to end the r-word is retarded
    -activism is retarded because, what if youre full of ****?

  4. #144
    Expert Fullmag's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by churchmouse View Post

    We all have choices. We make them. There is sometimes a price involved.

    I was talking to a couple of guys I worked with pretty regularly out of the now closed Muncie Chevy transmission plant. We keep in contact. Both retired. I was involved with that plant for about 5 years. I shut down the chillers and helped pack them up when they were moving a lot of the production line out. They have some pretty interesting views on this whole strike thing. It was an eye opener for me.
    Living Muncie all my life and being over 50. Muncie and Anderson used to boom with economy. Many union jobs are gone. Not just a few MANY. Mostly in my adult life the last 30 years. Now Muncie has 1 high school instead of 3, one does not have a mall, Muncie does is not worth mentioning. Westinghouse going out on strike every year Ontario forge, Borg Warner, Delco-Remy, Marhofers, and Chevy. Few others that I can not accurately name all gone now.

    Health care cost? Where work we complained about cost of health care they came back and said it was the going rate for East Central Indiana. We pay out much more than what the UAW brethren are paying.

    My opinion on what I’ve seen, what I read, what I hear. I’ll sum it up.

    Both of my cars are over 10 years old. When I consider getting a new truck they start out around 50 to 60 grand for what I like. Unless my pay goes up or the truck prices go down no new car purchases are not going to happen from me soon and that is why there are not many union jobs here Muncie or Anderson.

    Both Muncie and Anderson have a union mentality so not many business bring anything here. Fast food or low income housing businesses seem to be the draw for Muncie being a college town. Everybody thought I’ll get a job at Honda in Greensburg they said they would not hire any living in Delaware county. So...yes I do have opinion about unions.

    A persons value is what they produce not how big their brother is.

  5. #145
    Grandmaster

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    We have family members that work for GM and UPS.

    Step mom says UPS employee claims they are "siding with the UAW" and aren't delivering to GM?

    I cannot seem to google up a news link to verify this?
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  6. #146
    '12 Chevy 1500 HO KokomoDave's Avatar

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    We had all the local unions from Chrysler, police, fire , parks dept, street dept, Haynes Int'l , teachers union and some others turn out along 931 in front of GMCH LLC and talk about solidarity. I saw the pics and was very impressed how the community came together to show support in this strong union town. Made me smile.
    Naphtali Lodge 389 Kokomo, IN

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  7. #147
    Plinker

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    Quote Originally Posted by KokomoDave View Post
    "Cheap labor isn't always skilled and skilled labor isn't always cheap."

    Quote I saw on Pinterest.
    Tell that to the people of New Castle a few miles from where I live. New factories there to replace the old auto ones...and them wages certainly aint what they were in the heyday. It's almost like the unions of times past negotiated pay and benefits rates that only worked when the U.S. dominated the world's industry because half of it was bombed into oblivion and the other half was stuck in a Communist hell.

  8. #148
    Grandmaster Hookeye's Avatar

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    I don't like ass kissers, flag wavers or team players. I like people who buck the system. Individualists. I often warn people: "Somewhere along the way, someone is going to tell you, 'There is no "I" in team.' What you should tell them is, 'Maybe not. But there is an "I" in independence, individuality and integrity.'" Avoid teams at all cost. Keep your circle small. Never join a group that has a name. If they say, "We're the So-and-Sos," take a walk. And if, somehow, you must join, if it's unavoidable, such as a union or a trade association, go ahead and join. But don't participate; it will be your death. And if they tell you you're not a team player, congratulate them on being observant. George Carlin


  9. #149
    Grandmaster

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    Looks like Liz stopped by to "selfie" promote.

    Recon that helps or hurts the cause?

    -----------------------------------------------
    Done, done, and Im on to the next one...
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  10. #150
    Grandmaster jamil's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hookeye View Post
    I don't like ass kissers, flag wavers or team players. I like people who buck the system. Individualists. I often warn people: "Somewhere along the way, someone is going to tell you, 'There is no "I" in team.' What you should tell them is, 'Maybe not. But there is an "I" in independence, individuality and integrity.'" Avoid teams at all cost. Keep your circle small. Never join a group that has a name. If they say, "We're the So-and-Sos," take a walk. And if, somehow, you must join, if it's unavoidable, such as a union or a trade association, go ahead and join. But don't participate; it will be your death. And if they tell you you're not a team player, congratulate them on being observant. George Carlin

    -spreading the word to end the r-word is retarded
    -activism is retarded because, what if youre full of ****?

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