How mad should I be?

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  • eldirector

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    A week or so ago, my elementary-aged kid brought home a permission slip for a 3rd party hearing screening at her school. I declined, and she returned the slip. Turns out, they administered the screening anyway, even after she reminded them that I had declined. Not just didn't give permission (eg: not returning the slip), but specifically declining (eg: they explicitly do not have permission).

    I am rather pissed, on several levels:
    - they went against my wishes
    - they performed a medical screening against my wishes
    - they used a 3rd party, who now has both a medical and education record for my child
    - the school now has this medical record in their file
    - the teacher actually told my kid to "stop fibbing" when she said we had declined, and forced her to be screened (I was annoyed with the above, but this sends me over the moon)

    I work with FERPA protected information almost every day. My wife worked with HIPPA protected information for more than a decade. We are both pretty well versed in those laws. I'm doing some research to see where exactly this falls. Not like I want to take this to the Supreme Court or anything, but I am rather annoyed.

    So, to the INGO collective... am I overreacting? Under-reacting? Just right?

    And just as I post, an update:
    Turns out the secretary didn't keep track of accept/decline. I have been assured the information would be removed by the school and the 3rd party. This impacted more than just my family.
     

    DoggyDaddy

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    I don't know... and for the record I'm not a parent, so I don't have the same point of view that you do... but I remember getting hearing tests in school (grade school) and to the best of my recollection, there were no permission slips required. They just did it. I think it was the school nurse that administered them. I guess I'm not understanding why it would be a big deal. With that said, I know that personal information is much more easily disseminated and perhaps with nefarious purposes today than it was back when I was in grade school. Do you have specific information that you're concerned about, like SSN, etc.?
     

    eldirector

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    Reason #1 - I did not give permission. I don't need to supply a reason. They asked, I said "no". End of story.

    As for some of the possible reasons: IMHO, health screening isn't under a school's (especially a private schools) purview. I am perfectly capable of managing my family's health. This type of screening had already been performed by our family doctor. I see no purpose to the school having this information. I have no idea who the 3rd party is, or how they manage patient data. I am risk-adverse when it comes to medical data.

    And that is off the top of my head.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    I think you are right to be pissed. Granted, the damage this time is minor, but if they cant keep track of consent that is a HUGE issue. What if this were some type of vaccination or food event and your child had an allergy so you declined? And to tell your kid they are lying and to sit down and comply is beyond infuriating. How about you listen to the kid and verify with mom or dad? It shouldnt take more than 5 minutes to do that. Put her aside, make the call, and then put her back in line if she was wrong.

    I agree, I'd be pissed too. Yet another reason why we homeschool.

    And should the secretary lose her job? Maybe. You are sending out permission slips, so you have to assume SOMEBODY is going to say no. If you are asking permission, why wouldnt you keep track? If you arent keeping track, why even ask? What happens the next time when failure to keep track causes real physical harm? Do we wait for that actual harm to happen, or nip it in the bud before it becomes a real issue because we have a worker who cant do the job? I'm honestly on the fence about that.
     

    spec4

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    I would go see the principal and find out this happened. As far as the teacher saying your child was "fibbing", I would become unglued. I would request that my child be transferred to a different teacher if possible. If not, I would demand that in the presence of my child, my wife, the principal and me that the teacher apologize for this outrage.
     

    DoggyDaddy

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    Reason #1 - I did not give permission. I don't need to supply a reason. They asked, I said "no". End of story.

    As for some of the possible reasons: IMHO, health screening isn't under a school's (especially a private schools) purview. I am perfectly capable of managing my family's health. This type of screening had already been performed by our family doctor. I see no purpose to the school having this information. I have no idea who the 3rd party is, or how they manage patient data. I am risk-adverse when it comes to medical data.

    And that is off the top of my head.

    Fair enough. I especially get the part about you specifically denying permission and them ignoring that. That would **** me off too.
     

    hoosierdoc

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    In our school lack of returning permission slip is consent. While frustrating I don’t know what can be done about it. Does this person need to be fired? Educated?

    edit: yeah, the teacher calling your kid a liar would **** me off. That teacher should have to write an apology note.
     
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    DeadeyeChrista'sdad

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    I called my kid's principal after he "inadvertently" kicked my kid out of school for moving out of district after the divorce. This went explicitly against their own rulebook.
    He told me to pound sand.
    The only thing that kept it out of court was that the superintendent of the district was a former teacher of mine, and he knew I wasn't kidding.
    The bottom line was that my kid needed extra help with tests, and the principal saw a way to cut a nickel from his budget at my kid's expense.
    I have almost no faith in the public education system.
     

    hoosierdoc

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    Guessing you meant "lack". But the OP DID return it and specifically declined to give his permission.

    i fixed typo, thanks. And I know what he posted, just sharing something from our district. That was specifically about a sex-ed style convo they were going to have. Assumed consent unless declined seems like a poor thing to teach kids
     

    marvin02

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    Don't be angry - it doesn't help and it causes bad decisions.

    I would have lawyer draw up a letter for you to sign that asks for the following:

    The destruction of all records pertaining to this test by anyone who holds them. Make sure that each party that has access to the information gives you their written guarantee of the destruction of these records.

    That all future procedures of this type be OPT IN. In other words if the teacher/admin staff does not have written approval in their hand then the procedure DOES NOT happen. This will probably need school board action and should be reflected in the minutes of the meeting.

    A written apology from the school system that clearly acknowledges that they were at fault.

    An apology in person from the teacher that called your daughter a liar in front of the same people that heard her say it. If you no longer respect/trust the teacher ask that your daughter be moved to another class.

    As I said have an attorney write up the letter. Do not have it on official letterhead from the attorney. If they know you have an attorney involved they will hide behind their own. But by consulting an attorney you will get a letter that covers your rights.

    When you meet with anyone from the school be calm and the louder they get the quieter and calmer you should get. Don't give them any chance to portray you as out of control.

    In the future make copies of all permission slips that the school sends home. Make sure your daughter has a copy with her so that there is no "confusion" about your wishes.

    Edit - ask that they let you know specifically who will be examining your daughter when these procedures happen. I refused to let them do scoliosis screenings on my kids because the doc involved had tried to choke his receptionist because she threatened to tell his wife they were sleeping together. Not the kind of person I wanted having anything to do with my kids. They usually require that all volunteers at a school nowadays get a background check - did they do this for the people performing the screening?
     
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    MarkC

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    i fixed typo, thanks. And I know what he posted, just sharing something from our district. That was specifically about a sex-ed style convo they were going to have. Assumed consent unless declined seems like a poor thing to teach kids

    But assuming consent unless declined makes it so much easier for those poor, overburdened, and underpaid school officials!

    Eldirector's experience is, in my opinion, off the charts wrong in so many ways, not the least of which is the teacher calling her student a liar (and sugarcoating it as "fibbing"). This is a situation where being upset is reasonable and the situation should be addressed.
     

    DadSmith

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    Contact the school board members and request action be taken. If they do not or it isn't to your liking sue them. That's the only thing they understand. I got into many verbal arguments with the principals at my childrens school and 2 board meetings on a totally different topic of course. Don't back down. Or they will push you around.
     

    HoughMade

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    Oct 24, 2012
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    Don't be angry - it doesn't help and it causes bad decisions.

    I would have lawyer draw up a letter for you to sign that asks for the following:

    The destruction of all records pertaining to this test by anyone who holds them. Make sure that each party that has access to the information gives you their written guarantee of the destruction of these records.

    That all future procedures of this type be OPT IN. In other words if the teacher/admin staff does not have written approval in their hand then the procedure DOES NOT happen. This will probably need school board action and should be reflected in the minutes of the meeting.

    A written apology from the school system that clearly acknowledges that they were at fault.

    An apology in person from the teacher that called your daughter a liar in front of the same people that heard her say it. If you no longer respect/trust the teacher ask that your daughter be moved to another class.

    As I said have an attorney write up the letter. Do not have it on official letterhead from the attorney. If they know you have an attorney involved they will hide behind their own. But by consulting an attorney you will get a letter that covers your rights.

    When you meet with anyone from the school be calm and the louder they get the quieter and calmer you should get. Don't give them any chance to portray you as out of control.

    In the future make copies of all permission slips that the school sends home. Make sure your daughter has a copy with her so that there is no "confusion" about your wishes.

    Edit - ask that they let you know specifically who will be examining your daughter when these procedures happen. I refused to let them do scoliosis screenings on my kids because the doc involved had tried to choke his receptionist because she threatened to tell his wife they were sleeping together. Not the kind of person I wanted having anything to do with my kids. They usually require that all volunteers at a school nowadays get a background check - did they do this for the people performing the screening?

    Wow...life can be so complicated...because we choose to make it that way.

    Personally, I would just go into the school and have a conversation with the decision makers with no anger at all. I would figure out what happened and politely discuss how to keep it from happening again. Real people, talking to each other.

    Lawyers...for this? Far be it from me to keep anyone from paying $300/hr to "deal" with this....but geez.
     

    marvin02

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    Assuming permission if a permission slip is not returned is a really bad policy. Kids who want to go on a field trip will just lose the slip. In this case there might be laws broken, since a medical test was performed without consent. no slip = consent would open up a lot of problems areas for schools.

    If you send your kid to a state school, they are going to do state stuff.

    Only as much as uninvolved, uninformed parents let them. Too many see schools as a babysitting service.
     

    Thor

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    Government (communist) indoctrinaters don't care what your opinion is, they will do as they see fit. If they won't follow your preferences for something like this it's easy to imagine that they won't for anything else. The preference slip is just pabulum to make the masses think they have a choice in their child's education and activities.

    I'd be pissed, pissed enough to do what we do...home school. Flock government indoctrination centers.
     
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