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  1. #11
    Expert PapaScout's Avatar

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    Cummins cutting jobs isn't news. They run a cycle every few years where they hire tons of college kids, force rank everyone, and then do cuts.
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  2. #12
    Plinker

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Midnight View Post
    I'm having a hard time seeing a slow-down in the sectors I see daily. Discretionary income plays a huge role in my job, and I have yet to see a noticeable slow down in spending. I'm also remodeling a house right now. All the contractors I've spoken with said they've never seen the economy like this, and that business has never been better. I've waited MONTHS between signing a contract and actual work being started. They're simply covered over.
    I hope you're right. But when I see the fed pumping money into the economy, lowering rates, and red flags such as an inverted yield curve and rising debt it makes me believe we're holding up the economy with sticks. I'd recommend to my friends and family to be cautious and hedge some bets. Also, if you're not in a vital role in your organization I'd store some funds away for a rainy day.
    The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State.

  3. #13
    Grandmaster ATOMonkey's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaScout View Post
    Cummins cutting jobs isn't news. They run a cycle every few years where they hire tons of college kids, force rank everyone, and then do cuts.
    Absolutely this. Cummins and Lilly are two VERY cyclic places to work. They don't mind cutting several thousand jobs here or there and then hiring nearly all of them back next quarter. It's their culture and it's one reason why I have never had much interest in working for either.

    It's also a good way to force out employees you don't like, or who refuse to retire, by citing economic slowdown.

  4. #14
    Expert Mark-DuCo's Avatar

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    I know the furniture industry is booming down here in Southern Indiana. My company has more employees than ever right now and we are still working at least 50 hours. It is the same way at other area manufacturers. Our second quarter this year was the best we have had in the companies 98 year history.

  5. #15
    Expert amboy49's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ATOMonkey View Post
    Absolutely this. Cummins and Lilly are two VERY cyclic places to work. They don't mind cutting several thousand jobs here or there and then hiring nearly all of them back next quarter. It's their culture and it's one reason why I have never had much interest in working for either.

    It's also a good way to force out employees you don't like, or who refuse to retire, by citing economic slowdown.
    Not quite sure I follow your logic about letting employees go in this manner is ďa good way to force out employees you donít like. . . . . . .by citing economic slowdown. They donít need an excuse or to even provide a reason. Indiana is a right to work state which, oddly, means you donít have a right to work and an employer can fire you at their pleasure. How can an employee that refuses to retire expect to stay employed if the company no longer wants the benefit of his services ? Firing people to then hire them back the next quarter also doesnít make any economic sense. The administrative costs would be huge.

    I think youíre confusing folks with a contract ( who have specific legal remedies for being terminated early ) with general hired folks who can be terminated at any time for any reason.

  6. #16
    Midnight Rider

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    Done, done, and Iím on to the next one...
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  7. #17
    Expert amboy49's Avatar

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    The fact Cummins is laying off people may be symbolic of a bigger issue. Perhaps the economy is truly beginning to show signs of a slowdown. There are many companies historically that have gotten in financial trouble by not reducing personnel and cutting other costs quickly enough and then cease to exist. No one is guaranteed a job forever that works for someone else and is drawing a paycheck.

  8. #18
    Grandmaster SmileDocHill's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by target64 View Post
    In the overseas automotive market India has laid off over 500,000 workers in their plants. The US off highway market is struggling and are no where close to last years figures.
    That's like $500,000 per day they are saving right there!


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    Putting firearms' contribution back in our history makes a more complete telling. Teaching marksmanship in that context deepens the understanding. Revere's Riders, because history involved guns!

  9. #19
    Grandmaster ATOMonkey's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by amboy49 View Post
    Not quite sure I follow your logic about letting employees go in this manner is ďa good way to force out employees you donít like. . . . . . .by citing economic slowdown. They donít need an excuse or to even provide a reason. Indiana is a right to work state which, oddly, means you donít have a right to work and an employer can fire you at their pleasure. How can an employee that refuses to retire expect to stay employed if the company no longer wants the benefit of his services ? Firing people to then hire them back the next quarter also doesnít make any economic sense. The administrative costs would be huge.

    I think youíre confusing folks with a contract ( who have specific legal remedies for being terminated early ) with general hired folks who can be terminated at any time for any reason.
    Even though Indiana is a right to work state, an employer can be sued for discriminatory firings, age being one of them. Additionally, most managers don't have authority to fire an employee without cause.

    Having worked in large corporations all my life, I have seen this happen quite a bit. They will keep on people who are just a pain in the ass to work with, but never do anything worth firing them. Then when the company has a bad quarter, they need to do something to "ensure investor confidence" and they lay off a bunch of people. They use this opportunity to prune the tree so to speak. Also keep in mind, that most HR is outsourced anymore, so a large corporation won't let anyone go unless it shows up on an annual review with the outsourced person who has never met anyone he/she is reviewing. Since rack and stack and forced distribution is all the rage for the last decade, everyone gets rated as "average," so no one ever gets fired...or promoted.

    HR won't fire anyone just because they're difficult to work with, or because they're old. However, if there is a force reduction going on, HR will ask line managers who needs to go.

    The funny part is this. After having one down quarter and firing 5% of your work force, low and behold the corporation wins a big new contract, or releases a new product!! Hurray!!! Only, they are short about 5% staff. So, they put out a bunch requisitions and pretty much fill all the positions they just let go.

    Is it dumb and expensive? Yes. Do upper level managers care? No. They probably just got huge bonuses for cutting cost in the previous quarter.

    Depending on the business, this cycles about every 5 to 10 years. Pharma cycles coincide with patents, trucking typically lags economic growth by a couple of years, Aviation lags on a 10 year cycle, because it takes so long to bring a product to market.

    It happens all the time.

  10. #20
    Grandmaster Sigblitz's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by MCgrease08 View Post
    The situation with Cummins isn't so much due to an overall economic downtown, but more about the fact that truck orders were at near record highs the last two years. Truck OEMs were playing catch up on back orders at the end of last year and the first half of this one. Now fleets that needed trucks have them and the demand is down.

    The HD market is expected to be flat to down for the next year or so. Medium Duty should stay relatively stable.

    The Asian markets, including China did see pretty big drops this year which were lower than expected. Especially in off-highway where new construction is slowing.

    It's like when gun manufacturing went nuts ahead of the 2016 elections because customers assumed Hillary would win. When she didn't, the market was already flooded.
    I wasn't understanding this until the last paragraph.


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