Welders of INGO... I have a stupid question for you!

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  • maxwelhse

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    So I bought a little 110 MIG (Everlast, FWIW) over a year ago at this point and it's probably time for me to attempt to do something with it. My stupid question is: Where should I buy gas? What should I look out for? What should a bottle cost? Are the bottles the same (meaning, will my regulator go on any bottle, or should I take it to the store with me)? I'm pretty sure I want C25 for regular old MIG, but that's about all I know. In terms of bottle size, uhh... knee high? I couldn't even begin to guess what size that is when translated from idiot to useful dimensions. Also FWIW, I'd like to buy 2 bottle (of "uhhh?" size) because the one thing I do know about welding is that everyone is always almost out of gas and I'd like to have a spare around. I don't mind the initial up front costs for the long run greater convenience of actually getting my work done when I want it done, but I also don't have tons of vertical space where I'm planning to keep the welder. Plus I'd like to keep it somewhat portable since the welder itself is only, maybe, 30lbs.

    I've heard horror stories of places trying to do weirdo leases, or not wanting to fill tanks bought at X store (I've seen this involving Airgas mostly, both sides of it), or demanding expensive recerts of you own your own tanks, and other shenanigans so I thought I'd just ask some guys who actually have an idea of what they're doing before I just toss myself to the wolves and make a bad choice. I'd likely be shopping in the Elkhart area, but if there's a really awesome welding store that I should establish a relationship with now that is a little further out, fine with me.

    Thanks in advance!
     

    eldirector

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    Can't remember the size, but I have a smaller tank from Tractor Supply. Wasn't terribly expensive, and they are convenient enough. When I do run out, TSC is usually open. I don't weld enough to need a larger tank. Only ran out mid-project once, and 30 min later I was back to welding with a full tank. I get the Argon/CO2 mix. Seems to work well with the mild steel I tend to work with.

    Just remember to turn the valve off EVERY TIME.
     

    maxwelhse

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    Can't remember the size, but I have a smaller tank from Tractor Supply. Wasn't terribly expensive, and they are convenient enough. When I do run out, TSC is usually open. I don't weld enough to need a larger tank. Only ran out mid-project once, and 30 min later I was back to welding with a full tank. I get the Argon/CO2 mix. Seems to work well with the mild steel I tend to work with.

    Just remember to turn the valve off EVERY TIME.

    TSC refills bottles? Do they all do it or just some of them?
     

    femurphy77

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    Keep an eye on craigslist and you can probably score a bottle or two sufficient for your usage. I have two CO2/Argon bottles about 3 ft tall. When one goes dry I hook up the other one and keep going. This allows me to refill at my convenience. I have found that airgas wants around $90 to exchange one but I do it through work so it's only about 30.

    I've never tried to refill them or exchange them anywhere else so it may be cheaper going those routes. I've found that if you end up with an oddball bottle or size they'll typically swap it for a conventional size for no cost if you "promise to always come back here" for refills.

    And as state above; ALWAYS CLOSE THE VALVE
     

    KokomoDave

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    Flux core can weld a bunch of mild steel pretty easily. If and when you are going into thicker material, you will need a gas tank or two. You didn't really get into your projects or material choice so it's kinda hard to guess.
     

    maxwelhse

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    Flux core can weld a bunch of mild steel pretty easily. If and when you are going into thicker material, you will need a gas tank or two. You didn't really get into your projects or material choice so it's kinda hard to guess.

    I already have some flux core, but I'd like to avoid the spatter. I'm doing primarily sheet metal stuff. I imagine the first victims will be exhaust system stuff.
     

    Sigblitz

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    I'll add that .030" wire is a good middle of the road size. It's easier to work with on thinner stuff than .035" and it won't run out as fast. And always shut the gas off.
     

    Rookie

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    I get my bottles from Rural King. #4 bottles last a long time. The first time is more expensive because you have to "buy" a bottle, then exchange just like propane. I'm thinking it's around $60 to exchange.
     

    Butch627

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    You want 75/25 argon co2 mix. Find out who supplies gas and exchanges bottles with the most convenience near you and go with them. For the small bottle you should use with a 110 mig you will be purchasing. For a casual hobby welder with 110 having an extra bottle is not really necessary unless you do not find a supplier that is convenient to you. As a general rule the actual suppliers will not refill tanks from their competitors. Whoever is your retailer should have bottles on hand to exchange for yours, and when you get the exchange bottle it will have that suppliers tag on it so you can't go to another supplier and exchange that bottle. The actual bottle that you purchase will be gone never to be seen again when you exchange it for a full one. The suppliers are companies like Airgas, Proxair, etc. Tractor supply and other retail outlets like that do not fill tanks they only are an exchange point for the supplier that they have a contract with. Buying used and you take a chance that the tank may be out of date or the company you deal with for refills may not accept it.
     

    femurphy77

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    You want 75/25 argon co2 mix. Find out who supplies gas and exchanges bottles with the most convenience near you and go with them. For the small bottle you should use with a 110 mig you will be purchasing. For a casual hobby welder with 110 having an extra bottle is not really necessary unless you do not find a supplier that is convenient to you. As a general rule the actual suppliers will not refill tanks from their competitors. Whoever is your retailer should have bottles on hand to exchange for yours, and when you get the exchange bottle it will have that suppliers tag on it so you can't go to another supplier and exchange that bottle. The actual bottle that you purchase will be gone never to be seen again when you exchange it for a full one. The suppliers are companies like Airgas, Proxair, etc. Tractor supply and other retail outlets like that do not fill tanks they only are an exchange point for the supplier that they have a contract with. Buying used and you take a chance that the tank may be out of date or the company you deal with for refills may not accept it.

    Neither of my tanks came from airgas, they have never given me any hassles about exchanging any tank I brought in.
     

    Rookie

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    Airgas annoyed me. Every time I went in, they wanted to charge me for leasing their tanks. Every time, I'd point out that I bought my tanks outright from them. They would correct the total and try to pull the same stunt the next time. After about six times, I stopped going there.
     

    maxwelhse

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    Thanks for all of the responses! I'm still unclear if I should turn the bottle off? :laugh:

    Whoever is your retailer should have bottles on hand to exchange for yours, and when you get the exchange bottle it will have that suppliers tag on it so you can't go to another supplier and exchange that bottle. The actual bottle that you purchase will be gone never to be seen again when you exchange it for a full one.

    This is the kind of crap I'm looking to try to minimize. If I BUY a tank, I expect to be able to take it where ever and do my business as I please. I mean... If I buy from Airgas, then move somewhere 100 miles from an Airgas, I certainly don't want to be stuck with them for life. These are exactly the kind of horror stories I've read online here and there over the years.

    I think I'm gonna try out Purity Cylinder Gases. They're my nearest LWS and appear to be a very small chain (looks like a few stores in IN and a few more in MI). I'm hoping that by going with an independent, and not a big outfit like Praxair or Airgas, maybe I'll get screwed around less on down the line? Looks like they also carry Lincoln, Miller, Metabo, etc. Seems like a good place to try to establish a relationship.

    Anyone ever used them?
     

    femurphy77

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    Buying a tank should have no bearing on refilling. Let me change that to "refilling". The only tank I "refill" is my aluminum CO2 tank because I want my ALUMINUM tank back. My oxy, acetylene, and argon/CO2 tanks are all exchanged for full tanks so I don't have to deal with hydros whenever they are due.

    Don't forget to shutoff the valve!


    That could potentially become a new ingo sig ine!:rockwoot:
     

    maxwelhse

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    Buying a tank should have no bearing on refilling. Let me change that to "refilling". The only tank I "refill" is my aluminum CO2 tank because I want my ALUMINUM tank back. My oxy, acetylene, and argon/CO2 tanks are all exchanged for full tanks so I don't have to deal with hydros whenever they are due.

    Don't forget to shutoff the valve!


    That could potentially become a new ingo sig ine!:rockwoot:

    Maybe that's the key to success that I should look into more deeply... Will PCG actually refill my owned tank if I drop it off one day and come back the next? That would circumvent this entire issue and is a reasonable question I wouldn't have thought to ask if not for this discussion.

    I also think that "Don't forget to shut off the tank" is a little more apropos considering the audience here... A boy can dream!
     

    Rookie

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    A tank is a tank is a tank. Exchanging it ensures that you are getting a certified, inspected tank every time.

    I can't believe nobody has said this but, don't forget to shut it off every time you're done.
     

    maxwelhse

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    A tank is a tank is a tank. Exchanging it ensures that you are getting a certified, inspected tank every time.

    I can't believe nobody has said this but, don't forget to shut it off every time you're done.

    I looked into this a little and it looks like getting a tank hydro tested is about $20 every 5-10 years, depending on the tank. I think I'd like to keep my freedom in the future and just pay up when I have to every several years. Of course, that also depends what I find out when I go to the LWS. This is almost certainly all less of a big deal than I'm making it out to be.

    Thanks for the tip on shutting the tank off!
     

    Butch627

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    A tank is a tank is a tank. Exchanging it ensures that you are getting a certified, inspected tank every time.

    I can't believe nobody has said this but, don't forget to shut it off every time you're done.

    Yes. OP you are overthinking this. Tens of thousands of people do just fine across the country using this method. Welding gas should be easy, there are lots of other things in life to make more complicated if that is your wish. Im willing to bet that most of the people with horror stories are only telling a part of the story. LWS wants you to be happy, weld, and use gas and hopes you buy your supplies, helmet, and new welders there.
     

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