Any electricians on board?

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  • Tactically Fat

    Grandmaster
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    Even better if you're in the "greater" south side of Indy?

    I have a small project that I'd like done. Small and simple - yet it's beyond me. That said, anything beyond switching out an outlet receptacle and a light switch is beyond me.

    Short job description: In my back garage, I have two (I think) always hot outlet receptacles - and no switch to control them. I'd like a switch as this is where the overhead lighting is. There is an attic above.
     

    Tactically Fat

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    Wiring is not exposed in the garage itself, but it is in the attic above. The room/garage is drywalled / insulated.

    I need not have the "drop" put in between the studs. On top of the drywall in conduit would suit me just fine. N.
     

    JettaKnight

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    So, the overhead lights are currently plugged into (when in use) to outlets, presumably 16" off the floor?


    If that's the case, why not just add permanent lights and a switch?



    If these outlets don't have their wires running up to the attic, you're better off adding new, potentially on the surface in EMT. Otherwise, I'm guessing you'd be wanting wire fished through the insulation, which sucks.
     

    femurphy77

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    So you want to cut a switch into the circuit feeding up to the outlets the lights are plugged into correct?

    A couple of different ways; locate the feed going up the wall and cut a switch in there. The downside is that you'll likely have some sheetrock repair afterwards from accessing the wiring but when it's done this will give the neatest appearance. The second option you already touched on; break the circuit at the outlet and drag it down thru conduit to the switch and then back up to the outlet.

    If you're not wanting to get fancy with the switching i.e., 3 ways, switch/fixture, etc. then it shouldn't be a big deal. Attic access?

    To clarify, break the circuit at the first outlet, run romex across the attic, come down thru the ceiling in conduit to a switch box and back up thru the conduit across the floor to the first receptacle.
     

    JettaKnight

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    So you want to cut a switch into the circuit feeding up to the outlets the lights are plugged into correct?

    A couple of different ways; locate the feed going up the wall and cut a switch in there. The downside is that you'll likely have some sheetrock repair afterwards from accessing the wiring but when it's done this will give the neatest appearance. The second option you already touched on; break the circuit at the outlet and drag it down thru conduit to the switch and then back up to the outlet.

    If you're not wanting to get fancy with the switching i.e., 3 ways, switch/fixture, etc. then it shouldn't be a big deal. Attic access?

    To clarify, break the circuit at the first outlet, run romex across the attic, come down thru the ceiling in conduit to a switch box and back up thru the conduit across the floor to the first receptacle.

    I think it'd be better to run a 14-3 from the outlet(s) down to a switch location, then rewire the outlets to be switched. The added bonus is that you could have only have half of the outlet switched.

    A remod box is probably appropriate here.
     

    Tactically Fat

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    To be honest, I don't care how it's done.

    I just want my lights attached to an honest-to-God switch vs. one of those remote control dongles that I have them in now.

    yes - there's easy access to the attic via a pull down staircase. Well, decently easy anyhow.
     

    bcannon

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    Pretty simple. You can surface mount Jboxes and run conduit between the two. Or if you want something less obtrusive you can do the same with some wiremold and wiremold boxes. Just about the same just a little easier on the eyes. Run a switchleg(3 individual wires: power in, power out, and a ground). Or...you can cut in a drywall box, drill a hole in the top plate directly above the drywall box and pull 1 3wire in and run it to your receptical for your light using it as your switchleg. If the circuit is on a 20amp breaker use 12ga wire, if its on a 15amp breaker use 14ga wire. Easy peezy.
     

    JettaKnight

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    Pretty simple. You can surface mount Jboxes and run conduit between the two. Or if you want something less obtrusive you can do the same with some wiremold and wiremold boxes. Just about the same just a little easier on the eyes. Run a switchleg(3 individual wires: power in, power out, and a ground). Or...you can cut in a drywall box, drill a hole in the top plate directly above the drywall box and pull 1 3wire in and run it to your receptical for your light using it as your switchleg. If the circuit is on a 20amp breaker use 12ga wire, if its on a 15amp breaker use 14ga wire. Easy peezy.

    Depends.

    His jurisdiction probably requires a neutral at the switch location, which is why I advised 14-3.
     

    bcannon

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    Depends.

    His jurisdiction probably requires a neutral at the switch location, which is why I advised 14-3.

    Doubt it unless he wants a indicator light on his switch or he wants a motion detector switch or wants a outlet next to his switch which all would require a neutral or if there were a possibility that he would want a 3way in the future requiring the extra wire but just for a single pole switch? No
    If it was a commercial or a industrial application maybe it would be wise to pull a extra wire but havnt ever heard of any "jurisdictional requirement" from any building inspectors or code management that require a neutral to be pulled to a single pole switch on a residential application. And again, if the circuit is on a a 20amp breaker use 12ga wire and if its on a 15amp breaker use 14ga wire. Its only a light yes but if its on a 20amp breaker it has the potential to over amp the rating of 14ga wire if there were a short in circuit or melt down on a fixture. If he wants half his receptical hot all the time and half of it switched he can break off the connecting tab between the two hot terminals on the hot side of receptical and pull the switch power from 1 side and switch the other. Again easy peezy. But again just to be safe 20amp circuit use 12ga wire, 15amp circuit use 14ga wire.
     
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    Tactically Fat

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    Sorry all... I only INGO when I'm riding the desk in the office. And I haven't been in the office since Friday afternoon.

    Info to update if it matters at all. I have THREE ceiling mounted constant-hot outlets. I would like them ALL to be tied in to one switch. That I can think of right now, only LED shop lights will be plugged in to them - so the current draw and demands will be minimal.

    I answered (too late) the PM that was sent to me.

    Electricity baffles me. Wiring / rewiring both baffles and greatly intimidates me. We fear that which we don't know, right?
     

    JettaKnight

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    Doubt it unless he wants a indicator light on his switch or he wants a motion detector switch or wants a outlet next to his switch which all would require a neutral or if there were a possibility that he would want a 3way in the future requiring the extra wire but just for a single pole switch? No
    If it was a commercial or a industrial application maybe it would be wise to pull a extra wire but havnt ever heard of any "jurisdictional requirement" from any building inspectors or code management that require a neutral to be pulled to a single pole switch on a residential application.

    It's been in the NEC code since 2011. In addtion to automated controls, a lot of dimmers need a neutral to operate with LEDs - you can't just trickle current through them like with resistive tungsten.

    2017 NEC said:
    404.2(C) Switches Controlling Lighting Loads.
    The grounded circuit conductor for the controlled lighting circuit shall be installed at the location where switches control lighting loads that are supplied by a grounded general-purpose branch circuit serving bathrooms, hallways, stairways, or rooms suitable for human habitation or occupancy as defined in the applicable building code. Where multiple switch locations control the same lighting load such that the entire floor area of the room or space is visible from the single or combined switch locations, the grounded circuit conductor shall only be required at one location. A grounded conductor shall not be required to be installed at lighting switch locations under any of the following conditions:

    (1) Where conductors enter the box enclosing the switch through a raceway, provided that the raceway is large enough for all contained conductors, including a grounded conductor
    (2) Where the box enclosing the switch is accessible for the installation of an additional or replacement cable without removing finish materials
    (3) Where snap switches with integral enclosures comply with 300.15(E)
    (4) Where lighting in the area is controlled by automatic means

    (5) Where a switch controls a receptacle load.
    The grounded conductor shall be extended to any switch location as necessary and shall be connected to switching devices that require line-to-neutral voltage to operate the electronics of the switch in the standby mode and shall meet the requirements of 404.22.
    Exception: The connection requirement shall become effective on January 1, 2020. It shall not apply to replacement or retrofit switches installed in locations prior to local adoption of 404.2(C) and where the grounded conductor cannot be extended without removing finish materials. The number of electronic lighting control switches on a branch circuit shall not exceed five, and the number connected to any feeder on the load side of a system or main bonding jumper shall not exceed 25. For the purpose of this exception, a neutral busbar, in compliance with 200.2(B) and to which a main or system bonding jumper is connected shall not be limited as to the number of electronic lighting control switches connected.

    Now, according to that, you could skip it in this case because it's switching outlets, but they are on the ceiling...
     
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