Big deal or no big deal? PSA screw up.

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Cameramonkey

    www.thechosen.tv
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    35   0   0
    May 12, 2013
    31,691
    77
    Camby area
    So I orderd a Glock fed lower pistol to replace my rifle version so I could run a Glock fed lower with my pistol uppers and be able to convert it to a rifle if I wanted later. (Hold your horses, I know, I'll get there.) It was a complete lower with just a pistol tube.

    So I had it shipped to USDS. I get there and Mike is doing my paperwork and I glance in the box. The paperwork shows a pistol lower, but the lower enclosed has a standard buffer tube and Magpul stock. They shipped a rifle lower instead.

    I explained what I ordered and was prepared to refuse delivered, but was assured by Mike that a while back ATF ruled that Thompson Contenders and other modular firearms can be switched back and forth with no problems as long as they are assembled to be fully compliant for the appropriate class. Turns out I didnt need to buy a pistol (or stripped) lower after all and could have just swapped the buffer tubes and been done with it.

    Its here:
    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/r...red-rifles-rifles-configured-pistols/download

    And the relevant portion here:
    "Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made
    when parts in a kit that were originally designed to be configured as both a pistol and a
    rifle are assembled or re-assembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g.,
    as a pistol, or a rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length)."

    So everyone agree we are all good, and ATF no longer applies the "Once a rifle, always a rifle" BS to not only TCs but also ARs even though they fit the definition of "modular" but are not named specifically?

    My biggest beef is this: Even if this is kosher and I can take the free stock as a bonus and convert it, what about some poor soul who doesnt truly understand NFA rules? He orders a Pistol lower, and they deliver a rifle lower with a packing slip for a pistol lower. He ordered a pistol, they shipped something that works that also says pistol on the packing list. So far everything he is reading says he has a pistol. So he just slaps a 4" upper on it and thinks he has a pistol but instead has an unregistered NFA item. Think the feds would cut him slack due to ignorance, or is he totally screwed? (I think he'll at LEAST be out lawyers fees to argue it.)

    Am I thinking the latter through too much? (possibly)
     

    rmw250

    Marksman
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Oct 28, 2014
    260
    18
    Kokomo
    Curious. Can you post the link from palmetto for the lower that you purchased? Should be able to type in a he SKU in the search and it will show up.

    Reason I ask, is that I have purchased 2 of PSAs 9mm lowers when they were on sale. One stripped and the other completed. The completed one came with the magpul moe setup ( stock included ) but it was only advertised as a pistol caliber and not an pistol lower. If the one you purchased was advertised as a pistol lower then I would agree with you and that should be brought to their attention.
     

    Cameramonkey

    www.thechosen.tv
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    35   0   0
    May 12, 2013
    31,691
    77
    Camby area
    Curious. Can you post the link from palmetto for the lower that you purchased? Should be able to type in a he SKU in the search and it will show up.

    Reason I ask, is that I have purchased 2 of PSAs 9mm lowers when they were on sale. One stripped and the other completed. The completed one came with the magpul moe setup ( stock included ) but it was only advertised as a pistol caliber and not an pistol lower. If the one you purchased was advertised as a pistol lower then I would agree with you and that should be brought to their attention.


    mine was advertised as a glock pistol caliber lower. Only accepts glock 9mm mags.

    This is what I ordered, sku on the list matches the website. Notice pistol buffer, no brace or anything.
    https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...-moe-pistol-lower-uses-glockr-5165449949.html

    This appears to be what they shipped
    https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-px-9-forged-complete-moe-lower-uses-glockr-style-5165449946.html

    They sent a ...946 instead of a ...949.
     

    femurphy77

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    30   0   0
    Mar 5, 2009
    20,268
    113
    S.E. of disorder
    Perhaps contact PSA with your concerns and citations and see if they are willing to stick their neck in the noose with you? I believe their response should answer the question.
     

    cbhausen

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    128   0   0
    Feb 17, 2010
    6,379
    113
    Indianapolis, IN
    How was it transferred, pistol or rifle? That’s what matters ultimately to changing the configuration. At least that’s what I thought until reading up thread.

    And always get stripped lowers and transfer them as simply “receiver”. As for some poor sap getting busted by ATF, it’s what they find when they get there. If they find an SBR there has better be a stamp.
     
    Last edited:

    Cameramonkey

    www.thechosen.tv
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    35   0   0
    May 12, 2013
    31,691
    77
    Camby area
    How was it transferred, pistol or rifle? That’s what matters ultimately to changing the configuration. At least that’s what I thought until reading up thread.

    And always get stripped lowers and transfer them as simply “receiver”. As for some poor sap getting busted by ATF, it’s what they find when they get there. If they find an SBR there has better be a stamp.


    It arrived as a rifle, so it was transferred as a rifle. According to the ATF letter, it no longer matters.
     

    d.kaufman

    Still Here
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    128   0   0
    Mar 9, 2013
    14,721
    149
    Hobart
    Just not sure what to make of the letter. That and the letter is 9 years old. Has the ATF released anything different on the matter since then?
     

    Cameramonkey

    www.thechosen.tv
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    35   0   0
    May 12, 2013
    31,691
    77
    Camby area
    Just not sure what to make of the letter. That and the letter is 9 years old. Has the ATF released anything different on the matter since then?


    Not so far, and I dont expect it. It was in response to a lawsuit where guns designed to be swapped back and forth were realized to be illegal if you bought the parts in the wrong order.

    And the ATF was smart enough to also include all other modular guns in the logic so they didnt have to answer that again since they were already there.

    Its never made any sense. why can you go one way but not the other?
     

    d.kaufman

    Still Here
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    128   0   0
    Mar 9, 2013
    14,721
    149
    Hobart
    Not so far, and I dont expect it. It was in response to a lawsuit where guns designed to be swapped back and forth were realized to be illegal if you bought the parts in the wrong order.

    And the ATF was smart enough to also include all other modular guns in the logic so they didnt have to answer that again since they were already there.

    Its never made any sense. why can you go one way but not the other?

    I hear ya. It is/was a stupid law, that's for sure. I'd like to hear Guy or Kirk's thoughts on the matter cause reading the legal mumbo jumbo gives me a headache
     

    Cameramonkey

    www.thechosen.tv
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    35   0   0
    May 12, 2013
    31,691
    77
    Camby area
    I hear ya. It is/was a stupid law, that's for sure. I'd like to hear Guy or Kirk's thoughts on the matter cause reading the legal mumbo jumbo gives me a headache

    I wont lie. I had to have somebody point out the quoted "held further" because I didnt catch it the first time through.
     
    Top Bottom