Electrical help??!!?!?!

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  • Cozy439

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    I have an issue with one of the GFI circuits in my kitchen. One of the outlets with the GFCI built in went tripped. I reset it and was ok for a few days then tripped again. This time once reset, it tripped again w/i minutes. I replaced it. For less than a day it worked. I replaced it again, and once that 3rd unit was installed - Nothing (tripped)! This new outlet still worked when wired into a different circuit. This circuit runs a couple outlets on the back counter, the TV & Phone, and the under-counter plug strip on the island. I replaced every outlet and the plug strip in this circuit, then I put the GFCI back in - TRIPPED right away. I took the GFCI out and placed a NON-GFCI (regular) outlet. Everything runs fine. Whats UP? This is in the kitchen but NO part of this circuit is w/i 6-8 feet of any water. Why do all the GFCI's trip but nothing else? Can I leave the non-GFCI outlet in place? Thanks.
     

    gregkl

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    Do you know if you have another wire that runs close to the wiring that the GFCI is on? Especially if the wires share a common junction box due to some rewiring or extending of a circuit. If you do and you plug something into, say an outlet that is on a circuit that is running next to the GFCI protected circuit, it can actually cause the GFCI to trip.

    I had an outlet that we never used but on two different occasions my SIL plugged her laptop into that outlet. The first time not only did it trip the GFCI, it fried it. I wrote it off as coincidence and a faulty GFCI. The second time it happened (tripped only, no fry this time) I starting doing some looking.

    I separated the non-GFCI wire from from the protected wire.

    Haven't had an issue since.
     

    gregkl

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    I'll assume your incoming wire is hooked to the line side and the downstream outlets come off the Load side, right?
     

    Cameramonkey

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    And remember that all downstream outlets are also protected. So it could be another outlet. Like maybe a garage or outdoor outlet?

    I used to have the exact same problem. Every time the kids would leave the weatherproof cover open on the outdoor outlet and it rained, GFI would trip. Eventually it started tripping all the time. Turns out the downstream outdoor outlet was bad.
     

    Hoosier Carry

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    Yes you should fix this properly so that you have ground fault protection on this circuit to answer your last question.

    Try unplugging the plug strip you have under the island before resetting the gfci. Sometimes those go bad and could cause a fault at the gfci.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    To put a finer point on my post, unplug the load (downstream ) wires and see if it continues to trip.
     

    jkaetz

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    Time to start troubleshooting 101. Because it's easy, unplug everything from all the outlets and test. If it stops it's something plugged in. Next disconnect the downstream (load) outlets from the GFCI and test. From there you will need to connect one outlet at a time and test until you identify the problem location.
     

    Cozy439

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    Do you know if you have another wire that runs close to the wiring that the GFCI is on? Especially if the wires share a common junction box due to some rewiring or extending of a circuit. If you do and you plug something into, say an outlet that is on a circuit that is running next to the GFCI protected circuit, it can actually cause the GFCI to trip.

    I had an outlet that we never used but on two different occasions my SIL plugged her laptop into that outlet. The first time not only did it trip the GFCI, it fried it. I wrote it off as coincidence and a faulty GFCI. The second time it happened (tripped only, no fry this time) I starting doing some looking.

    I separated the non-GFCI wire from from the protected wire.

    Haven't had an issue since.

    -Possible but unlikely. We have lived here 20 years and never had this happen before. No new appliances were added during or since this issue began.
     

    Cozy439

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    I'll assume your incoming wire is hooked to the line side and the downstream outlets come off the Load side, right?

    -I have to admit, I did not notice the LINE/LOAD marking on the back was reversed on the new one compared to the old one until I was half way done. I did correct it.
     

    Cozy439

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    And remember that all downstream outlets are also protected. So it could be another outlet. Like maybe a garage or outdoor outlet?

    I used to have the exact same problem. Every time the kids would leave the weatherproof cover open on the outdoor outlet and it rained, GFI would trip. Eventually it started tripping all the time. Turns out the downstream outdoor outlet was bad.

    -This was considered. There is no outside wall near this circuit. It is POSSIBLE but I have tried any/all nearby outlets to see if they are on the same circuit. Unless the original electrician ran one wild-ass circuit to the opposite side of the house, I do not think this is it.
     

    Cozy439

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    It’s not clear... Is it tripping even with NOTHING plugged in to any of the receptacles?

    -WITH the new GFCI installed, it tripped as soon as we thru the breaker. With the NON-GFCI outlet (regular), it does not trip, with or with anything plugged in. Right now I have the NON-GFCI outlet installed and TV, Phone (land line base), cell phone chargers and laptops plugged in as I type this and it does not trip.
     

    Cozy439

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    Yes you should fix this properly so that you have ground fault protection on this circuit to answer your last question.

    Try unplugging the plug strip you have under the island before resetting the gfci. Sometimes those go bad and could cause a fault at the gfci.

    -The plug strip and every other outlet were replaced. I did mention this circuit is +7-8' away from any water source in the kitchen. I thought that was the reason for GFCI.
     

    Cozy439

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    Time to start troubleshooting 101. Because it's easy, unplug everything from all the outlets and test. If it stops it's something plugged in. Next disconnect the downstream (load) outlets from the GFCI and test. From there you will need to connect one outlet at a time and test until you identify the problem location.

    -I will try this AGAIN the next time I have some free time. Your prescribed situation is what I did after the replacement GFCI tripped as soon as I installed it. I am no electrician and I DO appreciate all the offers of help but I have tried damn near everything I can think of.
     

    Cozy439

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    To put a finer point on my post, unplug the load (downstream ) wires and see if it continues to trip.

    -As with the post about Troubleshooting 101, I will do these next time I have a free evening (2 jobs and OT leave little time to do what needs doing). I really have tried as many 101 fixes I can think of. This may be troubleshooting 102, or 202 or 402.
     

    Hoosier Carry

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    -WITH the new GFCI installed, it tripped as soon as we thru the breaker. With the NON-GFCI outlet (regular), it does not trip, with or with anything plugged in. Right now I have the NON-GFCI outlet installed and TV, Phone (land line base), cell phone chargers and laptops plugged in as I type this and it does not trip.
    If I am understanding you correctly, the breaker at the panel is what is tripping right? The way it’s sounding is that you are getting a direct short from the gfci but not from the normal receptacle after installing. Is it possible that after cramming the gfci back in the wall, that there is something causing the short. For example, broken wire insulation, ground wire pushing back into the lugs? Those gfci’s don’t leave much room in the box. Just a thought for you.
     

    caverjamie

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    If I am understanding you correctly, the breaker at the panel is what is tripping right?

    I think he's saying the GFCI tripped as soon as he turned on the breaker to energize the circuit. Sounds like he doesn't have a direct short anywhere, but it definitely sounds like a wiring problem rather than all three replacement gfci outlets just happened to be bad. I agree with others, try just the gfci connected to the line with all the downstream loads disconnected, then start adding them back in one at a time. Sounds like a tricky issue!
     
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