non-submersible well pump ideas?

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  • hoosierdoc

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    we have a shallow well we use for irrigation, maybe 30' deep. in the last three years I've burned up three submersible pumps and am tired of it.

    it occurred to me maybe I should use a non-submersible pump since it's shallow, and we can winterize the pump instead of letting it sit in the well unused for six months and going bad.

    anyone familiar with suction head distances and such? the well is about 20' from the shed I have that houses the pressure tank. can I keep the pump in that shed and use the distance to well plus depth as the suction head? i realize lateral suction isn't as hard as vertical but it would still affect it a bit.

    C&J wanted $3000 to put a new pump in and would only warranty it for a year. bah. said the menards submersible pumps don't last.
     

    CampingJosh

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    can I keep the pump in that shed and use the distance to well plus depth as the suction head? i realize lateral suction isn't as hard as vertical but it would still affect it a bit.

    The lateral barely counts at all. Twenty feet lateral is likely less than 5 feet vertical. But a 90* bend counts for a lot.

    If I were you, I would keep using a submersible pump, but I would pull it up and make sure that it spins freely each spring before firing it up. If you break the corrosion by hand, it won't burn up motors nearly so often. Of course I have a tractor that can pull up a well pump, so that might not be a good solution for you.
     
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    On a hill in Perry C
    Might want to find out why your pumps keep burning up first. Knock on wood, I've replaced our well pump once in the 20 years we've lived here, about 4 years ago, and it was old when we moved in. And its pumping from a hell of a lot more than 30 feet deep.
     

    maxwelhse

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    I've never heard of submersible pump in a well that shallow. Seems like you could be pumping the casing dry and burning them up that way?

    Anyhow... I had a shallow well in my last house and had a no-name Jet pump from Lowes make it for a disturbingly long amount of time despite all sorts of adverse conditions (the lift lines were all destroyed and it had a pitless adapter that was basically non-servicable, so the pump just cavitated non-stop... the house just flat out needed a new well drilled). I ended up replacing it with a Wayne that was of obviously superior quality. Everything on it was thick AF and it ran about 50% quieter too.

    So... If I were in the market, I'd look at Wayne.
     

    Gary119

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    churchmouse

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    Working in the dark here with little information. Are you using a standard household pump? You might want to check the GPM and at what pressure. Then check a irrigation pump.

    Here is a submersible pump from TSC 10 GPM

    https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/p...eries-4-in-submersible-pump-230v?cm_vc=-10005


    Here is an irrigation / sprinkler pump 67 GPM

    https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/p...-hp-thermoplastic-sprinkler-pump?cm_vc=-10005

    Could be you're running the ones you have had to hard.

    ^^^^^^^This sounds reasonable^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     

    Butch627

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    It is my understanding that sprinkler pumps do not have enough suction and rapidly loose efficiency as the suction side gets deeper.
     

    PRasko

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    Max suction depth for an above ground shallow well pump is 25 foot. It isn't a pump issue, it's an issue with physics.

    If your well isn't that deep, you can use an above ground and install it yourself depending on the hookup etc.. I would recommend Goulds or Flint and walling.

    I have a shallow well on my house that runs into a natural underground spring. Had to replace my pump recently. The old Jacuzzi one lasted around 30 years. It was a goulds with the Jacuzzi name.

    -edit-

    Some of the goulds can be swapped between shallow and deep well, and the deep well ones can hit 110 feet. It depends on the model.

    Mine was a convertible unit, but I run it shallow well. It ran me around 440$ or so.
     

    maxwelhse

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    Sounds like you need a pressure tank, too. :D

    If for some reason it's not already setup that way, I strongly second this. Without a pressure tank you can short cycle the hell out of pump and burn it up quick.

    You can also get pressure switches in varying pressure ranges to help prevent that and they're adjustable. My old well was so bad I had to put a 20-40psi switch on it and adjust the kick-in for like 15psi and the cutoff at 20psi. Far from ideal, but it worked.
     

    schmart

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    anyone familiar with suction head distances and such? the well is about 20' from the shed I have that houses the pressure tank. can I keep the pump in that shed and use the distance to well plus depth as the suction head? i realize lateral suction isn't as hard as vertical but it would still affect it a bit.

    OK, I admit, I don't have any hands on experience with well pumps, even though I've lived with well water most of my life. I suspect you will not be happy with moving to a suction type pump as the depth is just on the edge of working. An alternative is a jet pump that takes a portion of the pumped water and sends it back into the well, and uses that to power a venturi to suck up more water and push it back to the pump.
    In theory, a jet pump should work with the pump in the shed with appropriate pluming modifications.
    --Rick
     

    churchmouse

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    If for some reason it's not already setup that way, I strongly second this. Without a pressure tank you can short cycle the hell out of pump and burn it up quick.

    You can also get pressure switches in varying pressure ranges to help prevent that and they're adjustable. My old well was so bad I had to put a 20-40psi switch on it and adjust the kick-in for like 15psi and the cutoff at 20psi. Far from ideal, but it worked.

    If he is using it to irrigate then a Pressure tank is pretty much useless.
     

    maxwelhse

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    If he is using it to irrigate then a Pressure tank is pretty much useless.

    That depends entirely on the flow rate of the system as compared to the pump. Really, this could work both ways. He could have a situation where the pressure in the pump is dropping so low that it's cavitating (which a pressure tank will help boost, but it's not a fix that lasts forever. It just slows the inevitable) or his jump may be able to outrun the rest of the system, causing excess pressure spikes at the pump and creating a short cycle issue that a pressure tank will help smooth out.

    The more I think about it, the more I think we need to know more about the entire system to understand why he's burning up pumps all the time. Skimming back over the thread, it sounds like he already does have a pressure tank on it.
     

    schmart

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    maxwelhse;8338320 He could have a situation where the pressure in the pump is dropping so low that it's cavitating.[/QUOTE said:
    This comment made me think of another possibility, given that it is a shallow well, is it possible that you are pumping too fast, and dropping the water level in the well below the top of the pump. Submersible pumps are cooled by the surrounding water. If the water level drops and exposes the motor at the top of the pump, it could overheat pretty quickly. I have no idea how to test this out though.
    --Rick
     

    NKBJ

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    Are you sucking down the water level in the hole and making the pump run without water?
     

    woodsie57

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    I ran my house on a Harbor Freight shallow pump for 14 yrs. Always bought the extended warranty, cuz they'd not last more than 2 years- but with quick connect fittings, only about 10 minutes to do the swap- beats dropping a grand or 2 on a proper system
     
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