AK: Air bus

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  • Alamo

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    No, not the airplane company.


    CH-47-Chinook-06-24-2020.jpg


    [FONT=&amp]AK, UNITED STATES 06.18.2020 - Alaska Army National Guard Soldiers assigned to 1st Battalion, 207th Aviation Regiment executed an extraction mission via a CH-47 Chinook helicopter over Healy, Alaska., June 18, 2020. As part of a combined effort with the Department of Natural Resources, the Guardsmen rigged and airlifted “Bus 142,” an historic icon from book and film, “Into the Wild,” out of its location on Stampede Road in light of public safety concerns. The bus will be stored at a secure site while the DNR considers all options and alternatives for its permanent disposition. (Alaska National Guard Coutesy photo by Brent Goodrum, DNR)[/FONT]

    https://strategypage.com/military_photos/military_photos_2020062419915.aspx
     

    maxwelhse

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    Our tax dollars at work by preventing more stupid people from going to visit a place where a stupid guy killed himself. :facepalm:
     

    eric001

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    Our tax dollars at work by preventing more stupid people from going to visit a place where a stupid guy killed himself. :facepalm:

    Yet more $$ spent trying to prevent Darwinism from working. The should have put up signs directing idiots to it instead.
     

    actaeon277

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    It's also your tax dollars training those people.
    They don't just read a book about it, and everything is known.
    You actually have to do stuff to help learn it.
     

    maxwelhse

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    It's also your tax dollars training those people.

    No problem with that aspect of it at all. However, I'd prefer the people I depend on for my liberty and health to be trained in the safest way possible. Lifting a 70+ year old bus out of the middle of nowhere, with the expressed goal to be so a bunch of modern day hippies stop dying there (after reading/watching a story of exactly how to die doing it), doesn't really check that box for me. When I first read about this planned extraction they weren't even sure the bus would hold up to the air lift. I'm going to assume that spontaneously unloading a few tons off of a Chinook in flight could be hazardous to the crew...

    I wouldn't ask you to actually melt down a sub reactor just make sure you knew what to do if it happened either. There are better ways and better reasons to train. I'm happy to pay for those.
     

    actaeon277

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    Safest way possible?
    For a military unit.

    Train hard.
    Bleed less.

    As for the nuke, and the sub, there were a LOT more dangerous stuff than this.
    This is like "baby steps".
     

    maxwelhse

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    Then we should look at increasing military funding until the training is safer than lifting a rusty bus out of one of the most remote areas of the US with some tow straps for virtually no reason.

    This sounds like some Soviet style "Dollar Tree" training to me. I want the full budget, shiny and oiled up, version as much as possible.

    To come full circle, I have no problem paying for training. I do have a problem with paying for "stupid prevention" as that's proven to be 100% ineffective in the past. We will manufacture better stupids in short order.
     

    actaeon277

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    As for the "Hippie" aspect, you do things, not for the reasons stated, but so you can do them.

    At the end of the cold war, the Navy still had to keep track of foreign navies.
    They still had to deal with the remnants of the Bear's navy.
    But everyone talked about the end of the cold war, and how we could begin to see the "peace dividend", and spend less money.
    Navy still had the same amount of jobs to do.
    $$ was cut. Ship building was cut. Ship maintenance was cut. Personnel were cut.
    So, Congress wanted us to "track whales and biologics".

    Guess what we did.
    We tracked whales and biologics.
    We didn't give a flying **** about whales and biologics.
    What we did care about was keeping the sub in operation, and the men assigned to it in top training to operate the vessel to the highest degree, in case we were called upon to use it.
    The skills in chasing whales, can be used in fighting.
    And while we were chasing whales, we could still through in drills (fire fighting, damage control, tracking & fire control, engineering casualties, etc).


    So they need training moving things, in remote locations, not just on a flat field on a base.
    They don't care about the bus.
    But what the do care about, is moving big items from remote locations, not just on a flat field on a base.
    So, they move the bus.
     

    actaeon277

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    Then we should look at increasing military funding until the training is safer than lifting a rusty bus out of one of the most remote areas of the US with some tow straps for virtually no reason.

    This sounds like some Soviet style "Dollar Tree" training to me. I want the full budget, shiny and oiled up, version as much as possible.

    To come full circle, I have no problem paying for training. I do have a problem with paying for "stupid prevention" as that's proven to be 100% ineffective in the past. We will manufacture better stupids in short order.

    If it's safe, it's NOT training.
    Not military training anyway.

    Baby steps, yes. Safe.
    Advanced, not so much.
     

    actaeon277

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    I trained fighting fires, by fighting fires.
    I singed hair, burned clothes, melted the rubber on my shoes.
    It was "safe" in that there were people watching us. By people, I mean a couple, watching many people, from a distance.
    Was it safe, kind of.
    But it was better than the safe training, with a fire extinguisher in a building, or like I do know at work which is to fight the fire on a computer.
    And it's better to risk harm in a controlled "not so safe" environment, than it is to lose an "asset" such as a unit of combat engineers, or a nuclear powered attack sub.
     

    maxwelhse

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    My single biggest gripe here (other than the political one) is that no one knew that the bus would be safe to airlift and that is what was causing the most danger. Every other aspect of this, as a training OP, could have been accomplished with a known quantity hanging from the helo. There are brand new school buses in the junkyard right now that have frames with the factory paint still on them. Use one of those.

    If part of the training was to identify if it could be lifted, fine. Identify that. Then fly a crane truck or gantry in to try it instead of risking the flight crew on something I (and trying to dig around in my internal file... I believe the Park Service too) view as pretty sketchy. May as well train those other crews too while we're at it. You're certainly not going to always have a Chinook just hanging out waiting to pick things up.
     

    maxwelhse

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    And it's better to risk harm in a controlled "not so safe" environment, than it is to lose an "asset" such as a unit of combat engineers, or a nuclear powered attack sub.

    That's my principal argument here. The bus is an uncontrolled wild variable. So, right or wrong, I'm viewing picking that pile of trash up as an unacceptable risk to the flight crew and the equipment.
     

    actaeon277

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    That's my principal argument here. The bus is an uncontrolled wild variable. So, right or wrong, I'm viewing picking that pile of trash up as an unacceptable risk to the flight crew and the equipment.

    I'd say it was controlled, because no one is shooting at you.
    That's kinda one of the hazards of combat engineers and transport people.
     

    OurDee

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    I'd say it was controlled, because no one is shooting at you.
    That's kinda one of the hazards of combat engineers and transport people.

    We trained in the 70s with a base of fire element chewing up the ground in front of us with 5.56 while we fired every time our left foot hit the ground as we advanced in a line. It was safe sort of.
     

    actaeon277

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    We trained in the 70s with a base of fire element chewing up the ground in front of us with 5.56 while we fired every time our left foot hit the ground as we advanced in a line. It was safe sort of.

    Which is about as good as it gets. Safe, sort of.
     

    Alamo

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    My my, grumpy crowd. Next time I post something like this I'll put in a warning to make sure you've had your morning coffee, or whiskey, or coffee and whiskey, before viewing.

    So here goes: Make sure you've had your morning coffee or whiskey (or coffey and whiskey) before viewing:

    M88-Recovery-Vehicle-06-29-2020.jpg


    [FONT=&amp]GRAFENWOEHR, BY, GERMANY 04.16.2020 - A U.S. Soldier with the 15th Brigade Support Battalion, 2nd Armor Brigade Combat Team, 1st Cavalry Division fires a M2 .50-caliber heavy-machine gun from a M88 Recovery Vehicle during the battalion’s Table 4 mounted machine gun range at the 7th Army Training Command’s Grafenwoehr Training Area, Germany, April 16, 2020. (U.S. Army photo by Gertrud Zach)[/FONT]
     

    HoughMade

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    I'd say it was controlled, because no one is shooting at you.
    That's kinda one of the hazards of combat engineers and transport people.

    Yeah training.

    If it wasn't this, they be slinging a 105 or a Hummer or...whatever.

    Might as well do something useful.
     

    BugI02

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    I also would think that having to plan and execute the hook and haul of a sketchy unknown load would be better training of the analytical and planning faculties of the loadmaster and crew involved than having them hook to a new vehicle of which there is no doubt it can withstand the process
     

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