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  • indyjohn

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    In the trees
    There’s a woman in our daily lives, not yet 20, had a good education and has a good job working with children. She may become our DIL. In her spare time she runs from one social justice cause to the next, pushing her views on social media. She and I go back and forth with our opinions of whatever topic, whether it be BLM, Police brutality, statues that glorify racism, etc.

    I’m a right conservative republican Trump supporter. So you can imagine the exchanges on social media that we have. We’ve managed to keep it civil over the course of a year and I don’t expect it to go bad anytime soon. It seems to me that we are just one example of who knows how many similar relationships that exist today and that makes me wonder what will happen come November. She makes remarkable claims about access to the “dark web” and chat rooms that expose police improprieties, child trafficking, atrocities to undocumented immigrants and so forth. I look at her posts and ask myself “how can you possibly validate these claims from people you’ve never met?”

    Tonight the OG discovers social media posts pointing wealthy celebrities to child molestation activities. Over time, it has become apparent to me that a lot of bad things are going on and they are not being exposed by the media because, well, it’s the media.

    All these things I take in stride because I make an effort to not let anything in society surprise me. But I worry about how things may go if our country embraces the ideas pushed by the 5% that gets the most media attention, in other words Socialism/Antifa/eventual Communism.

    So, what must we as rational citizens, need to do to steer society back to center in order to avoid a certain catastrophe?
     

    churchmouse

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    indyjohn

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    ditcherman

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    In the country, hopefully.
    This is a topic worth taking the time to think about and discuss.
    For sure. I was impressed and inspired by the answers I read over there.
    There is still hope.
    Things might look different, but it still can be good.
    A pendulum swings slowly, and this generation is so entrenched it may be a long wait to “steer society back to center”. But that does not mean there isn’t hope.
     

    ditcherman

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    In the country, hopefully.
    I asked a mod for opinion before I posted. He said I could add to that post or start a new conversation. I chose to go this way, for better or for worse.
    Not worse at all, didn’t know if you had seen it, that’s all.
    I think to start with, the relationship you have with this girl is a good start, you might be the only sane voice in her circle. Hopefully she will think critically and come around, but like I said above, that pendulum swings slowly.
    Either we will die, they will die, or we will come to respect each other’s views, through relationships. There may be other choices I suppose.
     

    indyjohn

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    Not worse at all, didn’t know if you had seen it, that’s all.
    I think to start with, the relationship you have with this girl is a good start, you might be the only sane voice in her circle. Hopefully she will think critically and come around, but like I said above, that pendulum swings slowly.
    Either we will die, they will die, or we will come to respect each other’s views, through relationships. There may be other choices I suppose.

    So currently we're struggling with critical thinking vs. thinking what you were told to think.
     

    OkieGirl

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    I think the other choices would be something more like stepping away from Social Media platforms completely. Getting out of the bubble and into reality is paramount in winning any 'war' against destructive movements. When your mantra must have a race, color, or creed in front of it YOU are racist. I will not diminish someone else's worth to make myself better, that's ridiculous. I will work to ensure I bring value to the task at hand or the conversation at the table. To ridicule someone for having a good faith conversation in the hopes of finding common ground is a tactic of cowards incapable of civil discourse. If you cannot say it sitting across the table over a cup of coffee, it shouldn't be said in an online forum.

    Why is BLM an flawed statement? Just review the document that drew the line in the sand and started the early American's down this journey. It may have taken them generations to get problems worked out, but they were remedied over time nontheless. We cannot place judgement on a countries actions in the 1800's by the standards held in that country 200 years later. Things change. This is why we have electricity. Why antibiotics are a thing. Why no woman I know washes laundry by beating it on a rock.

    Quoted from OUR nation's Declaration of Independence: [FONT=&quot]“[/FONT][FONT=&quot]We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]”[/FONT]
     

    ditcherman

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    In the country, hopefully.
    So currently we're struggling with critical thinking vs. thinking what you were told to think.
    Ok, I’m not sure what you’re getting at here but I’ll try to understand.
    I have my opinions, many of them not real popular here, but I know when I read some thing and it resonates with me. I couldn’t or wouldn’t write it out but when someone did and I agree with it, I’m letting them tell me what to think?
    Actually, what you quoted is not at all a summary of the other thread, it’s all mine. Do you have any ideas to “steer society to the center” vs a more tumultuous albeit quicker path?
     

    Tombs

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    So, what must we as rational citizens, need to do to steer society back to center in order to avoid a certain catastrophe?

    It's pretty simple, really. Stop tolerating it, stop allowing it to exist in your community, stop allowing it to exist inside your family or relationships.

    And yes, I do mean by any means necessary. It is plainly evil, thriving solely off of inflicting suffering on the innocent.
     

    OkieGirl

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    iti anunka (In the trees)
    It's pretty simple, really. Stop tolerating it, stop allowing it to exist in your community, stop allowing it to exist inside your family or relationships.

    And yes, I do mean by any means necessary. It is plainly evil, thriving solely off of inflicting suffering on the innocent.

    QFT. Our facts must be spot on, no sharing random memes from the book of faces. Our knowledge must be at the ready and the ability to site the source is paramount. Prepare yourself for harsh discussion and open the conversation with a gentle spirit. To win back our youth we will have to win their hearts and minds... after they were blindly given away to disinformation and social justice themes.

    My eyes were open this past year to the hurt in the hearts of our nation's youth. The young gal with the blue hair at our local grocery store got into a chat with the hubs while she was bagging our groceries. Her belief system was far left and there wasn't much in the way of common ground. He politely played along and we gathered our groceries and left. Much of what her topics of discussion were, were based in wrongs done to others. She was very focused on perceived inflicted harm done to groups of peoples. I would catch a glimpse of her from time to time when running errands at the grocery. A few months later there was a table near the customer service desk that had a picture of her and flowers. It hit me that the discussion points of the SJW don't truly reach the hearts of our youth in a way that gives them meaning and purpose. They don't know their value, the value of their lives upon this earth. Without any understanding of self worth, there is no internal requirement to remain in the fight. Nothing that compels one to get up again tomorrow morning and do it better that it was done today.
     

    Hoosierkav

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    If you're hoping to "reach" one of these free thinkers, it may help to take a topic that isn't on the table, so it can be argued logically, without the pre-existing biases and "you're just trying to make me change my mind". As Musashi said, "If you know the Way broadly, you see it in all things". Once you can see that a quote can be spun/have multiple meanings, or that a fact can be a whole fact or a partial fact ("One person read this" and "Many people read this" are both true statements, but "Only one person read this" is not true), or that a person of a certain identify is not all of that identity (not all cops are jackbooted thugs, and, not all are friendly to a 10 year old's lemonade stand), you start to appreciate the world a bit better.

    But, it seems most people nowadays don't think deeply, barely superficially. You will do well to engage with her and get her to see you as deeper than a Trump Ogre, which might help her talk with her peers and either get them to see a bit more clearly, or, she will see how blinded by ignorance they are and she will want to leave their radical ways...
     

    Tombs

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    Prepare yourself for harsh discussion and open the conversation with a gentle spirit.

    This is the apathy and denial I am talking about.

    You can't tell evil people to respect morality and common decency.

    Talking is a complete waste of time and a good way to end up getting your information mined, and lose your job.
    If you don't know just how evil and cruel these people are, consider yourself lucky.
     

    rob63

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    A lot of great discussion here.

    I would add that you shouldn't allow yourself to be led down the rabbit-hole of the extremists. I don't have any neighbors or friends that are anything remotely like an actual communist or white supremacist, there's no reason to believe such people are numerous in spite of the competing narratives. BLM may be led by "trained-marxist" but the people that are protesting are largely just people concerned about an injustice. Recognize that the right has just as much fake news as what the left does, don't believe what is in a meme without checking out the details for yourself.

    I can discuss specific policies or reforms, reality versus perception, probable outcomes of various changes, if I simply recognize that most people are simply seeking justice rather than revolution. I find that when I discuss specific policy objectives there are things we can agree on, and the other person takes my objections to other reforms more seriously when they realize that my objections are based upon the probable outcomes rather than any opposition to the goal of justice for everyone. If we both really do want to have a color-blind society we ought to be able to simply have a discussion. Obviously, this all depends upon the other person not being one of the extremists, but most people aren't, even though the op's situation may be different. I have no idea what to do about the actual crazy ones, they certainly do exist.

    Also, don't assume that the other person actually knows what seems like obvious information to you, have a discussion about every detail. I have a nephew that was a dedicated Bernie Bro socialist throughout college. I was stunned, amazed, and angered by it to the point that I couldn't even discuss it with him. One day my brother mentioned that my nephew had suddenly completely turned on Bernie and socialism. I asked him what happened, and the answer was a simple "he learned what the word socialism meant." A lot of these kids that are so opposed to capitalism have a really simplistic view of what it means, something along the lines of "capitalism is rich people taking advantage of poor people while socialism is people caring about their neighbor." You can turn them by simply explaining what is actually meant by free markets, etc. They really don't know.

    I should add that the same nephew has joined the marches in support of BLM, but we are able to have honest open discussions about policy reforms and his position isn't very far from mine. We agree on far more than we disagree on. I was happy to learn that he is just as outraged by cancel culture as I am and he can argue with the extremists on his side far better than I can. It is useful, meaningful, and hopeful to work together.
     

    Trigger Time

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    It's pretty simple, really. Stop tolerating it, stop allowing it to exist in your community, stop allowing it to exist inside your family or relationships.

    And yes, I do mean by any means necessary. It is plainly evil, thriving solely off of inflicting suffering on the innocent.
    I completely agree. It's past time for true conservatives to GET NASTY! Do you want to preserve this country or not?
    Time to stop being nice. The same about gun rights. Stop giving them inches so they can take a mile.
    Stop compromising our integrity now.

    There was a time in this country when if you said vile things or promoted anti American propaganda you'd get punched in your dirty mouth. We need this policy back. Stop letting all of these little snowflakes shame you.
     

    SwikLS

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    I have 3 possible solutions to get America back on the right track that has been rattling around in my brain for many years now and I don't think I have written them down before so here goes.

    1. Change tax day from April 15th to October 15th so that govt spending would be on voter's minds when they go to vote a few weeks after paying their taxes. Govt spending would come down as would the debt. This would have the effect then of a booming economy like we've never seen before which would bring more people out of poverty. The more people that rise up into the middle class the less likely they are to support marxist/socialist ideas.

    2. SCOTUS could overturn the prayer in schools cases. The first known case I could find on this is a case called Engel vs Vitale. Its a case is New York where the court first said having prayer associated with public schools is a violation of the establishment clause of the 1st Amendment. The dissenting opinion though stated the founders only meant there shouldn't be an official state religion like, for example, the Church of England. Anyway, the effect of this would be that kids that might not otherwise be exposed to Christian moral values, then would be exposed to them in public schools and that would have obvious positive effects as they became adults.

    3. Repeal the part of the 17th Amendment that changed the way Senators are chosen. Originally Senators were chosen by state legislatures and not by popular election for about the first 120 years of American history. This worked out relatively well until some states became deadlocked on choosing their Senator. However, the answer shouldn't have been to scrap the whole system for Senators but instead for Governors to hold special elections if a state legislature was deadlocked. Its no coincidence that the welfare state started growing after this amendment was ratified and undoing it would eventually lead to undong the welfare state. It would also lead to more federalism since the Senate would then answer to state legislatures and not the the people (as was originally intended).

    If any one of these 3 were to actually happen it would go a long way to putting America back on track and getting us off this marxist/socialist path that we're on. Also, if even one were to happen it could have a chain effect of making the others happen.

    Some of these have been mentioned by other conservative media/pundits types. For example, I think the 3rd one was mentioned by Mark Levin in his book Liberty and Tyranny.
     
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    KLB

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    1) Tax day for most people is about how big their refund will be, not about spending by the government. Plus a lot of people are only worried about what the government will spend on them. They don't care about the overall spending.

    2) Hearing other people pray does not impart morals on someone. Just how do you envision this working?
    Should kids be aloud to pray while in school? Sure. The school should not be leading prayers though.

    3) I wish the 17th would be repealed. It's never going to happen though.
     
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