Eye protection from lasers

[Phase2]

Using lasers (particularly green lasers) to blind your opponent has become a favored tactic of Antifa/BLM.

Federal officers in Portland suffered 113 eye injuries from lasers, DHS official says

It has also been used against non-police at their own homes.

I'm starting to research what laser-resistant goggles are available, but am struggling with the terminology. They use terms like CO2, Excimer, UV, KTP, Argon, Ruby, HeNe, Krypton, Sapphire, IR, Nd:YAG and it isn't clear if any are particularly resistant to green (or red) laser pointers. Can anyone help to provide clarity on what to look for to resist laser pointers?

 

[4651feeder]

Perhaps this article can assist you.

https://www.tested.com/tech/830-know-your-laser-spectrum-red-vs-green-vs-blue-vs-yellow/

 

[Jaybird1980]

You might look into what type the feds went with

 

[jkaetz]

The laser color is a function of the frequency it runs at. Green is 532nm. To protect your eyes you need a filter that will reflect most/all of that frequency or scatter it so that it is no longer a concentrated point. This also assumes they are using run of the mill laser pointers. There are plenty of lasers out there that are significantly more powerful and dangerous in a variety of frequencies.

https://www.wickedlasers.com/
https://www.laserpointerpro.com/attribute/color_blue-violet-laser-pointers_18

 

[Phase2]

OK. Here's what I've learned so far. Will update as I find other useful into:

Spectrum of various color visible laser pointers is 400-700nm (nanometers). High protection from all means very little visible light gets through, so you need more selectively protective lenses. Green is ~532nm.
OD (optical density) is a measure of resistance to light penetration at a specific area of the light spectrum. Higher means more resistant (0=100% penetration, 1=10% penetration, 2=1% penetration, 6=0.0001% penetration, etc)
So, an example is OD 6 at 650-680nm (high protection in the red range of the spectrum).

VLT (visible light transmission) is a measure of how much visible light is allowed through. Lower means less overall visible light through. (25% VLT allows less visible light than 75% VLT)

From wikipedia:

Additional acronyms used in this thread:
IR- Infrared- above the red end of the visible spectrum
UV- Ultraviolet- below the violet end of the visible spectrum
NVG- Night vision goggles

 

[Karl-just-Karl]

OK. Here's what I've learned so far. Will update as I find other useful into:

Spectrum of various color visible laser pointers is 400-700nm (nanometers). That is the full range you want protection from. Green is ~532nm.
OD (optical density) is a measure of resistance to light penetration at a specific area of the light spectrum. Higher means more resistant (0=100% penetration, 1=10% penetration, 2=1% penetration, 6=0.0001% penetration, etc)

So, an example is OD 6 at 650-680nm (high protection in the red range of the spectrum).

Unfortunately, you probably won't be able to get something that offers maximum protection at all frequencies. If it does, you might as well be wearing aluminum foil over your face.

It is fair to presume the use of the green laser pointers based upon recent examples.

In addition, you might also want to consider protection from IR lasers. They can damage your eyes and you will never even see them.

Most of the stuff you listed: CO2, Excimer, UV, KTP, Argon, Ruby, HeNe, Krypton, Sapphire, IR, Nd:YAG, is the source material lasing and causing the emanation of the coherent light source. The emitted frequency is associated with the material.

Once you get into laser diodes the game changes a bit, but I'll stop at this point.

 

[Phase2]

Thanks KjK. Yes, I've figured out that those terms I used in the OP are types of lasers and not really important for analyzing protection.

Should I really be concerned about IR lasers? As I understand it, they aren't visible, so wouldn't be commonly used as a weapon and can't really be aimed without IR goggles. Correct?

I've found this page helpful for understanding different ODs and VLTs for different color goggles.

Looks like the LG3 and LG14 goggles would have very good green resistance while still allowing in ~50% visible light. Neither provide protection in the IR spectrum. Am I understanding this right?

 

[Karl-just-Karl]

Thanks KjK. Yes, I've figured out that those terms I used in the OP are types of lasers and not really important for analyzing protection.

Should I really be concerned about IR lasers? As I understand it, they aren't visible, so wouldn't be commonly used as a weapon and can't really be aimed without IR goggles. Correct?

I've found this page helpful for understanding different ODs and VLTs for different color goggles.

Looks like the LG3 and LG14 goggles would have very good green resistance while still allowing in ~50% visible light. Neither provide protection in the IR spectrum. Am I understanding this right?

I am by no means an expert. So...IANAE?

It looks like you have a pretty good handle on things...figuring out the wavelengths and what-not. The linked page has a pretty good variety of stuff to choose from.

Most of my minimal experience has been with UV and Red Lasers, and some messing around at home with IR.

With the rise of the green lasers, I imagine the move will be on to the violet pretty quick. The stuff posted by jkaetz looks pretty scary to me if operating anywhere close to the claimed power levels. I would like to see the associated power supplies. I am probably old and out of touch, but I am highly skeptical of a hand-held unit capable of 50,000mW.

If someone is willing to attack someone with a green laser it is only a matter of time until they figure out it is too easy to trace back to its source and they will move on to IR. Yes, NVG would be required to see an IR laser, provided it is operating at an appropriate frequency. NVGs are actually more like NearIR and are not broad spectrum.

 

[jkaetz]

I am by no means an expert. So...IANAE?

It looks like you have a pretty good handle on things...figuring out the wavelengths and what-not. The linked page has a pretty good variety of stuff to choose from.

Most of my minimal experience has been with UV and Red Lasers, and some messing around at home with IR.

With the rise of the green lasers, I imagine the move will be on to the violet pretty quick. The stuff posted by jkaetz looks pretty scary to me if operating anywhere close to the claimed power levels. I would like to see the associated power supplies. I am probably old and out of touch, but I am highly skeptical of a hand-held unit capable of 50,000mW.

If someone is willing to attack someone with a green laser it is only a matter of time until they figure out it is too easy to trace back to its source and they will move on to IR. Yes, NVG would be required to see an IR laser, provided it is operating at an appropriate frequency. NVGs are actually more like NearIR and are not broad spectrum.

I have no doubt the wicked lasers are properly rated. I also have no doubt the other site has excessive ratings. Kind of like buying batteries or LED flashlights. Some sellers seem to make up bigger numbers just to stand out. Some of my favorite are the 9000 mah rated 18650 cells or the 4000 lumin led flashlights. But even the 1 or 2 watt lasers are more than powerful enough to do significant damage.

 

[Karl-just-Karl]

...even the 1 or 2 watt lasers are more than powerful enough to do significant damage.

This is no joke. The backscatter can even be dangerous, thus the need for safety eyewear.

We had a 5 watt laser burn a hole in a ceiling tile.

I've been waiting for someone to do something stupid with a industrial CO2 laser. They used to be available on Ebay for a few hundred dollars.

I was under the impression class 4 lasers were strictly controlled and regulated. Maybe things have changed.

 

[BugI02]

OP, I'm seeing a fair amount of solutions offered as pilot eye protection which may live up to its billing due to liability concerns. The quite powerful green lasers are the most common problem for pilots due to malicious illuminations, and have been for quite some time, long enough that some realistic solutions will have made it onto the market. I would look for a product with FAA, pilot group, or perhaps better yet LE certification

That being said, there is quite a difference in intensity between the 50 to 150 foot range of a riot encounter and the 1500+ foot range of a helicopter or landing a/c illumination, which is likely really the better part of a mile due to slant range. What works in a cockpit environment may not in a close range encounter

I am also seeing that someone with a bit of knowledge can actually get the high power green lasers to emit at a second frequency simultaneously by modifying the unit, and the secondary peak is near infrared at 808nm. If such is done, no NVG would be needed because it would be collimated with the 532nm beam, which would provide a visual aim point

My thinking is the solution would be for LEOs to have counter-sniper teams on the roof and take out high power laser users with extreme prejudice. It would be interesting to see how many spattered heads it would take to convince them to try other tactics. For my money, as soon as they power up they should be killed. It's assault with real intent to do permanent harm

 

[russc2542]

Thanks KjK. Yes, I've figured out that those terms I used in the OP are types of lasers and not really important for analyzing protection.

Should I really be concerned about IR lasers? As I understand it, they aren't visible, so wouldn't be commonly used as a weapon and can't really be aimed without IR goggles. Correct?

I've found this page helpful for understanding different ODs and VLTs for different color goggles.

Looks like the LG3 and LG14 goggles would have very good green resistance while still allowing in ~50% visible light. Neither provide protection in the IR spectrum. Am I understanding this right?

Strap it to a scope (can be cheap rimfire or even airsoft... no recoil) with a mount meant to attach the laser to a shotgun mag tube. have someone that does have NV equipment zero. heck, many digital cameras will pick up IR... point your old IR TV remote at it to check.

Crap, does that put me on a list?

 

[T.Lex]

Tagged for interest.

 

[larcat]

Since yall love to laugh about aquariums... These are used (not the green ones but whatever) for killing pest anemones in aquariums....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA9VVRkQxVU

There's nothing cute about this at all.

 

[NKBJ]

If people try to use a disabling laser on you (assume you are defending property and/or lives) has it just gone hot?
In the absence of photon torpedoes some weight of lead would be all you had.
Would the immediate response with deadly force be not only justified but proper? Well, unless maybe you were really really good, good enough to only shoot their eye out?

When police officers are confronted with malefactors trying to do them bodily harm, that's when we (society at large) need to slip the leash. They volunteer to be our protectors. Making them stand still and absorb the harm is worse than what we'd require of a dog.

 

[JeepHammer]

I saw two questions,
1. Protection from,
2. Firearms use in the event of.

What did the general readership decide, if anything?

 

[Thor]

If people try to use a disabling laser on you (assume you are defending property and/or lives) has it just gone hot?

I would assume so. How is this any different from trying to blind you any other way? Should you allow someone to throw acid in your face? If they blind you how can you defend yourself or your family?

Fire in the hole.

 

[russc2542]

well, lasers can do severe, permanent bodily harm (blindness)... so yea I guess it does.


Probably won't play well in the media (being non-lethal) but seems like it'd be legally justified.

 

[Karl-just-Karl]

I saw two questions,
1. Protection from,
2. Firearms use in the event of.

What did the general readership decide, if anything?

1) "Protection from" is widely available and since participating in this thread I am considering pursuing my own but have no idea which wavelength would make the most sense.

Green based upon current developments, IR from where I believe it is going, blue and purple/UV might be an intermediate step. Buying several pairs of protective eyewear and then attempting to predict what someone might use against me seems silly.


2) I too would like to know the legal grounds for responding to someone shining a laser into my eyes, potentially causing short-term if not long term problems.

As a parallel question, what rights do you have if someone is assaulting you with pepper spray or some other non-lethal yet painful item or device?

If I am walking down the street and get hit by a taser from someone trying to mug me, can I pull my weapon if I am able to recover in time and shoot them while they go through my pockets?

 

[BugI02]

I saw two questions,
1. Protection from,
2. Firearms use in the event of.

What did the general readership decide, if anything?

An unsuccessful attempt to blind me or damage my vision will be terminated with extreme prejudice in the quickest way possible. It's scarcely different from wrestling over a gun, it is an attempt to disarm me