recommended outboard repair guy, SW Indy

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  • Cameramonkey

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    Murphy has been rough on me today. Yesterday I lost a nut in the grass. Not even a magnet would find it.

    I noticed the new to me 1977 Evinrude 9.9 outboard wasnt idling properly so I decided to stick it in the tank and figure it out today. after re-gapping the plugs, running some sea foam, and carb cleaner (and making a huge adjustment to the idle mix knob) I had it purring at ldle like it should.

    I noticed some oil in the tank but assumed it was unburnt 2 cycle due to running rich. Nope. Dropped the water in the tank and the prop was COVERED in grey gear oil. All around the outside, and tons collected inside the prop hub. Spun out the gearbox drain and sure enough, grey oil.

    I think its probably the prop shaft seal given how its all coming out around the prop. And possibly a bearing since it feels gritty as I spin it by hand. Somebody else also suggested the upper crankshaft seal. I THINK I can tackle it as it looks pretty easy at least to get the lower off after watching a howto on an impeller replacement. But wanting to get an idea what a pro would charge in case it might be worth my while to leave it to an expert instead of teaching my kids a handful of new swear words.

    And avoiding the big shops if possible as they have more overhead than smaller shops.

    Suggestions?
     

    churchmouse

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    Well how is your intro into "OLD BOAT OWNER" status. :):


    Hey just a :stickpoke: cause we all toldya. Did you check that before you bought the outfit.

    There may or may not be some specific tools required to get that gear box apart and then back together properly. I have never done one that small but like any drive unit there are specs/clearances to be observed. Get a manual/spec sheet on it and a list of tools. The spaner nut might be a challenge and might not.

    Be prepared to see some damage if it has been run in the grey for a while.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Well how is your intro into "OLD BOAT OWNER" status. :):


    Hey just a :stickpoke: cause we all toldya. Did you check that before you bought the outfit.

    There may or may not be some specific tools required to get that gear box apart and then back together properly. I have never done one that small but like any drive unit there are specs/clearances to be observed. Get a manual/spec sheet on it and a list of tools. The spaner nut might be a challenge and might not.

    Be prepared to see some damage if it has been run in the grey for a while.

    With all due respect, BITE ME. Not the time. Trust me, I'd LOVE a brand new boat and motor, but that wasnt in the budget. So lets move on and skip the a-hole "I told you so" comments. No need to be a jerk.

    Yes, it was purchased from a trusted person, and it was checked at the time. It clean looking and was running clean in his tank, and ran clean at home in my tank before my first outing. So it was good. No hard feelings against the seller.

    It actually went out today while I was fixing the carb issues. (wouldnt idle) It was clean when it came out of the water Wednesday at Eagle Creek, and no oil was visible when I started today. So its only got 30-45 minutes max on the clock while grey. And researching a bit, with modern oil it takes a LONG time after losing oil to do damage. If you catch it quick before too much water displaces most the gear oil it will still have sufficient lubrication. I'm pretty sure a set of new seals and a prop shaft bearing for good measure and I'll be good.

    Now if we can move along with the productive comments, I'd appreciate it.
     

    churchmouse

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    With all due respect, BITE ME. Not the time. Trust me, I'd LOVE a brand new boat and motor, but that wasnt in the budget. So lets move on and skip the a-hole "I told you so" comments. No need to be a jerk.

    Yes, it was purchased from a trusted person, and it was checked at the time. It clean looking and was running clean in his tank, and ran clean at home in my tank before my first outing. So it was good. No hard feelings against the seller.

    It actually went out today while I was fixing the carb issues. (wouldnt idle) It was clean when it came out of the water Wednesday at Eagle Creek, and no oil was visible when I started today. So its only got 30-45 minutes max on the clock while grey. And researching a bit, with modern oil it takes a LONG time after losing oil to do damage. If you catch it quick before too much water displaces most the gear oil it will still have sufficient lubrication. I'm pretty sure a set of new seals and a prop shaft bearing for good measure and I'll be good.

    Now if we can move along with the productive comments, I'd appreciate it.

    :lmfao:..........gotcha.

    Heck I dont get no respect anyway.
     

    churchmouse

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    With all due respect, BITE ME. Not the time. Trust me, I'd LOVE a brand new boat and motor, but that wasnt in the budget. So lets move on and skip the a-hole "I told you so" comments. No need to be a jerk.

    Yes, it was purchased from a trusted person, and it was checked at the time. It clean looking and was running clean in his tank, and ran clean at home in my tank before my first outing. So it was good. No hard feelings against the seller.

    It actually went out today while I was fixing the carb issues. (wouldnt idle) It was clean when it came out of the water Wednesday at Eagle Creek, and no oil was visible when I started today. So its only got 30-45 minutes max on the clock while grey. And researching a bit, with modern oil it takes a LONG time after losing oil to do damage. If you catch it quick before too much water displaces most the gear oil it will still have sufficient lubrication. I'm pretty sure a set of new seals and a prop shaft bearing for good measure and I'll be good.

    Now if we can move along with the productive comments, I'd appreciate it.

    And you can bite me. Not being a jerk. Grow up. Laughing all the way. If you are pissed because your 43 year old boat has an issue we all warned you. Now, bite me. My comments were productive. I have been in several drive units.

    You are your own worst enemy man.

    Would you like to escalate this. I meant all of that in good humor. You can take a beating from the snow flake so WTAF.

    Humor man. Humor.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    I'm over it and moved on. No need to escalate. <2 hours post fail just wasnt the time for your "humor". I'm good now. I am just counting my blessings that I'm not with RBG. :): But seriously, its got a solid powerhead, and life is good all things considered.

    And I found a guy that sells fully rebuilt lowers with all new rubbers for $250 shipped. I can swap a lower and install a prop. That's cake and only takes a standard screwdriver as I recall from the impeller video I watched. And I'll have a lower to play with and rebuild myself as a spare over time with no pressure.
     

    Hatin Since 87

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    Honestly I would do it yourself. I’m not being hard on you when I say that, because I do this with vehicles, but if you’re going to buy used the only way you’ll save the money vs buying new is if you do the work yourself... and it’s going to need work, it’s used. Thats part of the cheaper price tag when buying. I got rid of my boat years ago for this exact reason, they become a time investment, or if you don’t wanna spend the time it turns into a money pit. I would watch some videos or buy a buddy some dinner and beer and do it yourself.
     

    bwframe

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    giphy.gif
     

    Clay Pigeon

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    And you can bite me. Not being a jerk. Grow up. Laughing all the way. If you are pissed because your 43 year old boat has an issue we all warned you. Now, bite me. My comments were productive. I have been in several drive units.

    You are your own worst enemy man.

    Would you like to escalate this. I meant all of that in good humor. You can take a beating from the snow flake so WTAF.

    Humor man. Humor.


    Tonight is a twofer***,, RBG and this thread..... Can it get any better.....
    That circle didn't take long now did it.... I tried....... This is as funny as a city boy on a tractor......

    2_550x550_Front_Color-White.jpg

    Now that that is out of the way...
    Here is some more advice that you wouldn't take like last time. Take that 43 year old outboard and toss it in a dumpster and this winter spend 16 to 26 hundred on a new 4 stroke 9-10hp outboard and enjoy it taking you out and most importantly bringing your family and you back the marina for the next ten years....
     

    halfmileharry

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    I'm over it and moved on. No need to escalate. <2 hours post fail just wasnt the time for your "humor". I'm good now. I am just counting my blessings that I'm not with RBG. :): But seriously, its got a solid powerhead, and life is good all things considered.

    And I found a guy that sells fully rebuilt lowers with all new rubbers for $250 shipped. I can swap a lower and install a prop. That's cake and only takes a standard screwdriver as I recall from the impeller video I watched. And I'll have a lower to play with and rebuild myself as a spare over time with no pressure.

    Watch the video to find the tricks to changing it. Like making sure the motor is in forward gear position. Little things like that make life easy.
     

    churchmouse

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    I'm over it and moved on. No need to escalate. <2 hours post fail just wasnt the time for your "humor". I'm good now. I am just counting my blessings that I'm not with RBG. :): But seriously, its got a solid powerhead, and life is good all things considered.

    And I found a guy that sells fully rebuilt lowers with all new rubbers for $250 shipped. I can swap a lower and install a prop. That's cake and only takes a standard screwdriver as I recall from the impeller video I watched. And I'll have a lower to play with and rebuild myself as a spare over time with no pressure.

    Please. You know I have a lot of respect for you and how you face this world. If my humor was to dark for you then I apologize but brother you do not want me biting you. Not these days anyway....Humor. Again. Somme more....:):
     

    churchmouse

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    Tonight is a twofer***,, RBG and this thread..... Can it get any better.....
    That circle didn't take long now did it.... I tried....... This is as funny as a city boy on a tractor......

    View attachment 91205

    Now that that is out of the way...
    Here is some more advice that you wouldn't take like last time. Take that 43 year old outboard and toss it in a dumpster and this winter spend 16 to 26 hundred on a new 4 stroke 9-10hp outboard and enjoy it taking you out and most importantly bringing your family and you back the marina for the next ten years....

    I have seen and actually done this myself. And brother it was a trip. But a much larger money pit.

    Buddy has an elderly Evinrude in the same power range. Might be a bit older. It runs really well and then it doesn't. He tinkers with it and it runs really well again and then it doesn't. He brings it over and we would rink beer and mess with it hooked to the hose and it would run great. Take it fishing and he might get through the dat. Might not. Might be the water in Eagle Creek.......:):

    The engine now rests on a saw horse in the corner of his shop. Even money it will fire right up.....:)
    If the engine is OK then yes buy the lower unit. But what I see that has yet to be mentioned is making drastic changes in the state of tune.

    Again....the Monkey is most cool. And he can be comic relief as we all can.
     

    Fullmag

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    Evinrude and Mercury are the worst for at home mechanics, this was told to me from a outboard mechanic. They require special tools for special things He told me this after I lost money on boat and motor. Maybe this don’t apply to a 10 horse mine was a Ski-Twin that needed a professional mechanic. Possible good news, the lower unit gasket went bad and water was in it but found before winter and froze. They are made to tolerate water but not freezing temps.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Pretty sure the drastic state of tune was due to carb cleaning and better fuel. After a good gumout it was running way rich. Pretty sure I dislodged a booger from the low speed jet that the prior owner adjusted for. It idled just fine on the little bit of old gas he had in it. When I replaced it with ethanol free 90+ from CountryMark is when I started having idle issues. Silly me for feeding her the good food. Lol
     

    ultra...good

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    Pretty sure the drastic state of tune was due to carb cleaning and better fuel. After a good gumout it was running way rich. Pretty sure I dislodged a booger from the low speed jet that the prior owner adjusted for. It idled just fine on the little bit of old gas he had in it. When I replaced it with ethanol free 90+ from CountryMark is when I started having idle issues. Silly me for feeding her the good food. Lol

    I have owned 2 Johnsons (late 70's) and an Evinrude (1990) and all 3 of them only had a main jet. The orifices for idle and mid range were air bleeds that metered the fuel by allowing air in based on the vacuum through the venturi. To figure out what you have, the few bucks spent on ebay or amazon for a used shop manual will be priceless, try to find a factory manual, not an aftermarket one. Two stroke motors require a link and sync for the fuel/ignition timing because they cannot advance timing on the vacuum from the crankcase, as two stroke crankcase goes from vacuum to pressure for each revolution to feed the fuel charge. It has to be set to advance based on the linkage and throttle position.

    Another culprit for idling issues is the reeds. They are a wear item and should be replaced when idle issues start to surface, mostly a sneeze at idle which can cause the motor to die. If you do replace them, make sure to lap the cages ending with a 200 grit. They work better when not completely smooth.

    As far as the lower unit, you might be better off buying a refurbished one because you will spend some money on specialty tools to take apart, check/set gear lash, and then re-assemble. This obviously does not include the time you will spend trying to figure all of this out. But hey, it is the right time of the year to learn some new things about outboard motors.

    Last but not least, here are two good websites for DIY boat stuff:

    https://www.screamandfly.com/forum.php


    http://www.bbcboards.net/forum.php


    Both of those sites have a bunch of people that are more then willing to help, and know what they are talking about. I have done all the work on all the motors I have ever owned and have not needed any other tools then what I already owned. My newest motor is a 1999 Mercury 280 drag and I have had the entire motor apart and back together with no issues. It was not the first motor I have been inside of though. I spend more money on fuel and oil for the boat then anything else. All the people that talk about a boat being a hole in the water that you keep throwing money into, have to pay mechanics to fix them.
     

    DoggyDaddy

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    Pretty sure the drastic state of tune was due to carb cleaning and better fuel. After a good gumout it was running way rich. Pretty sure I dislodged a booger from the low speed jet that the prior owner adjusted for. It idled just fine on the little bit of old gas he had in it. When I replaced it with ethanol free 90+ from CountryMark is when I started having idle issues. Silly me for feeding her the good food. Lol

    Just an aside CM (CM junior? :):)... be careful about spraying carb cleaner in the carb on a 2-cycle while it's running. I was told this by a boat motor mechanic, so take it for what it's worth (could be like gunshop talk for all I know, but it made sense). As he explained it, with a two-cycle, your lube is in the gas. When you spray the cleaner in the carb while it's running, you're taking away a lot of that lube. Again, I don't know if it's truly an issue or not with my limited mechanical knowledge, but it did make sense to me.
     

    halfmileharry

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    Just an aside CM (CM junior? :):)... be careful about spraying carb cleaner in the carb on a 2-cycle while it's running. I was told this by a boat motor mechanic, so take it for what it's worth (could be like gunshop talk for all I know, but it made sense). As he explained it, with a two-cycle, your lube is in the gas. When you spray the cleaner in the carb while it's running, you're taking away a lot of that lube. Again, I don't know if it's truly an issue or not with my limited mechanical knowledge, but it did make sense to me.

    2 cycle carb cleaner made specifically for boat motors
     

    epeery

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    I spent a few years working as a marine mechanic. In my experience the Johnson / Evinrude motors were VERY dependable when tuned correctly. The Mercury / Mariner could be tuned to out perform them, but they were more finicky. $250 seems cheap for a solid lower unit, especially without a core return, I'd be nervous about what I was buying. I'm pretty sure none of the standard oils were gray, so you almost certainly have mechanical failure that has generated metal dust in the oil.

    Lower unit removal and replacement is easy, especially on the smaller engines like you have. As mentioned above, watch videos and find a manual for little things like having it in gear or not, how linkages come apart, etc.

    I can't be much help on actually rebuilding a lower internally. At shop rates it was usually less expensive for the customer to just have us swap units with another from the factory.
     
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