I almost fell for a scam, but ironically I was saved by another scammer.

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  • rob63

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    My wife and I are moving to a smaller house and are attempting to git rid of some excess furniture. I posted something on Craig's List and got a message offering to buy it. I contacted them and was given a story about how they are out of town on business and asking if I would take a check? I replied that the check would have to clear the bank before they could take it, but ok.

    I should have smelled a rat right away, but I am often guilty of being naive about how crooked people can be. Plus, with moving day approaching, I am very focused on just getting rid of stuff. On top of that, I am receiving money and they agreed to the check clearing first, how can it be a scam?

    Then came the part about how they have arranged for a mover to pick up the sofa for them and they need me to pay the mover out of the excess funds they will include in the check. Ummm... this is just plain odd.

    Meanwhile, I had listed other pieces and I immediately got another offer to purchase the other furniture. I was thinking "that's great, can't believe it all sold so quickly."

    I then got the following reply back from the second buyer:

    Thanks for your response and the information, I really appreciate you for making me your favorite buyer.. I will need your honesty and trust to end this transaction. I would like to know if I can trust you with my money because I am sending you a check and the payment will be made immediately when I hear back from you. I will provide the tracking # as soon as it as been sent out, "More so" i'm including the shipper funds in the amount on the check because i don't have time to comedown for a look of the items but as soon as the check is cashed in your bank, you will deduct your own money for the item plus extra $70 for yourself for keeping the item for me and as running around fee and you will get the remaining money to the shipper that will come for the pick up for me and the Shipper is also picking some other valuable goods (like household, furniture's and electronics set with kitchen utensils) at the same city of your location to my new apartment. That's why you need to help me transfer the amount to the shipper ....Thanks for your mail and understanding once again, and I will get back to you with the tracking and the shipper info as soon as the payment is delivered to you.

    Ok, they left out the part about being a Nigerian prince, but it is pretty obvious that this has to be a scam.

    If the second is an obvious scam, it is also obvious that the first is a scam as well since it follows the same playbook. The only difference being that the first one actually communicated like a normal person would, instead of this obvious nonsense, and was pretending to be a local person that was just temporarily out of town. Consequently, I google it all and it turns out that it is a scam based on an obscure Federal banking law.

    Federal law requires banks to make funds available to you 24 hours after you cash a check, regardless of whether the check has actually cleared or not. The fact that the funds are deposited in your account is not an indication that the check has cleared, it is simply the bank following the law. The scammer anticipates that the movers will deliver the furniture before the check actually bounces, which can take as long as 2 weeks. The bank will then withdraw the money back out of your account and charge you a fine. I somehow had managed to remain completely unaware of this, I honestly thought that the bank didn't make the funds available until the check cleared.

    Frankly, it also had never occurred to me that anyone would go to the trouble of running a scam that involves moving furniture, but it turns out that it is common.

    If I actually receive a check from any of these people I will contact the post office and whatever banks are involved and see if they can do something. I know that it is probable that nothing will happen, but I also know that sometimes they can do something.

    A few years back I got a phone call that was an obvious scam and I played along long enough to get information from them including a hotel location where they would be meeting people. I forwarded the relevant info to the Indiana Attorney General office and forgot about it. Roughly a year later I received a thank you letter from the Attorney General telling me that they had successfully prosecuted the people using the info I had provided. Hopefully, they might be able to do something this time as well.
     

    KG1

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    I have one rule when it comes to selling Items. Never let the buyer dictate the terms. Actually two rules. I also don't take personal checks.
     

    maxwelhse

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    If it's on Craigslist, it's prolly a scam

    I've actually done a good bit of business on CL, including a couple of vehicles. Nowhere ever close to a scam, but several scumbags looking to low/high ball. The last guy I met from CL bought a Jeep top from me for $500, cash. Met at an ISP post. Smooth sailing.

    The biggest problem I have with CL these days is that it seems no one uses it anymore. Everybody seems to be on FB marketplace and I have never had a FB account and don't really want one.
     

    churchmouse

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    I've actually done a good bit of business on CL, including a couple of vehicles. Nowhere ever close to a scam, but several scumbags looking to low/high ball. The last guy I met from CL bought a Jeep top from me for $500, cash. Met at an ISP post. Smooth sailing.

    The biggest problem I have with CL these days is that it seems no one uses it anymore. Everybody seems to be on FB marketplace and I have never had a FB account and don't really want one.

    This is because CL is a scammer paradise.
     

    rob63

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    I've actually done a good bit of business on CL, including a couple of vehicles. Nowhere ever close to a scam, but several scumbags looking to low/high ball. The last guy I met from CL bought a Jeep top from me for $500, cash. Met at an ISP post. Smooth sailing.

    The biggest problem I have with CL these days is that it seems no one uses it anymore. Everybody seems to be on FB marketplace and I have never had a FB account and don't really want one.

    That is useful to know, thanks. I will give that a try.
     

    OurDee

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    I used marketplace more often than CL. Market place is just as messed up. Biggest problem I have with people are those that say they will take it, then without a word never show up.
     

    rob63

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    I used marketplace more often than CL. Market place is just as messed up. Biggest problem I have with people are those that say they will take it, then without a word never show up.

    Selling anything is a pain in the rear, even without the scammers. I have had the same issue as well, my favorite being a guy who failed to show or contact me, then a few days later was actually pissed at me for selling it to somebody else in the meantime.
     

    JettaKnight

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    If it's on Craigslist, it's prolly a scam

    You do have to be careful...

    But, then again, my love of pork convinced me that sending a farmer $500 via PayPal is ok... still waiting on the abattoir to give me a call to pick up.


    Oh, and if you see an obvious scam on Craigslist, please, please, please flag it.
     

    russc2542

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    I've actually done a good bit of business on CL, including a couple of vehicles. Nowhere ever close to a scam, but several scumbags looking to low/high ball. The last guy I met from CL bought a Jeep top from me for $500, cash. Met at an ISP post. Smooth sailing.

    The biggest problem I have with CL these days is that it seems no one uses it anymore. Everybody seems to be on FB marketplace and I have never had a FB account and don't really want one.

    Well, if you sort through the 37 obvious scams, 23 less obvious ones, tire kickers just checking if it's actually for sale, and people that want to give you pennies on the dollar for what it's worth... no there aren't any scammers.



    With FBM the problem is all the people that don't know the "send seller a message" button from the "send default "is this available" message" button.
     

    mom45

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    FB marketplace became a lot more active for vehicles when CL started charging to list them.
     

    maxwelhse

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    You guys are talking about CL, at least compared to FBM, like it hasn't always been like this...?

    Before I started using it around 2007, was it some magical place full of only grown adults with clear intentions that always execute on their plans? :dunno:

    I had assumed that FBM simply has a better app than CL and so the same scumbags, and decent people alike, just moved over there. Is this not the case?
     

    hoosierdoc

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    I've actually done a good bit of business on CL, including a couple of vehicles. Nowhere ever close to a scam, but several scumbags looking to low/high ball. The last guy I met from CL bought a Jeep top from me for $500, cash. Met at an ISP post. Smooth sailing.

    The biggest problem I have with CL these days is that it seems no one uses it anymore. Everybody seems to be on FB marketplace and I have never had a FB account and don't really want one.

    FB sucks. CL way better for legit people
     

    rob63

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    FWIW, my intent in starting this thread was to share what I learned about checks rather than CL scams. The sophistication level of modern printers is at a level where the banks can no longer tell if they are fake or not. Consequently, it can take weeks for the whole process to play out. Nonetheless, the bank will still hold you accountable for the fake check you deposited no matter how long it took them to figure it out.
     

    DoggyDaddy

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    FWIW, my intent in starting this thread was to share what I learned about checks rather than CL scams. The sophistication level of modern printers is at a level where the banks can no longer tell if they are fake or not. Consequently, it can take weeks for the whole process to play out. Nonetheless, the bank will still hold you accountable for the fake check you deposited no matter how long it took them to figure it out.

    Seems like it should be a nearly instantaneous process. You present the check to the bank, bank scans the account info from the check and sends that to the bank upon which the check is drawn and sends feedback that, "yes, the money is there so we will transfer it immediately" or "no, the money is not there (or the account is invalid) so we are declining this transaction."

    It's not like the old days when banks had to physically mail checks back and forth. Or at least is shouldn't be. Should be nearly as seamless as a credit/debit card transaction.
     

    rob63

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    Seems like it should be a nearly instantaneous process. You present the check to the bank, bank scans the account info from the check and sends that to the bank upon which the check is drawn and sends feedback that, "yes, the money is there so we will transfer it immediately" or "no, the money is not there (or the account is invalid) so we are declining this transaction."

    It's not like the old days when banks had to physically mail checks back and forth. Or at least is shouldn't be. Should be nearly as seamless as a credit/debit card transaction.


    I wholeheartedly agree with you, that is why all of this has come as such a surprise to me. I assumed banks had moved into the digital age and could do it exactly as you describe.

    Edit: upon further reflection, I wonder if the problem is simply that the fake checks are copying legitimate bank accounts and the fraud is not discovered until the real owner of the account realizes that there was a deduction from their account for a check they didn’t write? I suppose that if I had played along further I would have a better understanding of the details about how these frauds work, but it’s obviously not worth the aggravation.
     
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