Jeep Owners - Need some input

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  • Hoosierdood

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    8   0   0
    Nov 2, 2010
    5,360
    149
    North of you
    My wife has always wanted a Jeep. For over 25 years she has dreamed of one day owning one. As far as the options go, she does have a few non-negotiables.

    1. Has to be manual trans
    2. Has to have a hard top.
    3. Has to be 2 door. She hates 4 door jeeps.
    4. Has to have a 6 cyl engine.
    5. 2-3 years old, with low miles. This will be a daily driver family vehicle.


    I have been looking for months, and it is extremely difficult to find a decent used Jeep that meets all these criteria. HOWEVER, I have finally found one HERE:
    https://www.hzplainwell.com/used-Battle+Creek-2017-Jeep-Wrangler-Sahara-1C4AJWBG9HL572659

    It's a 2017 Wrangler Sahara with 30k miles.

    I've been researching common issues with Jeeps so that I know what I'm in for. I work on my own vehicles. We own 4 Volkswagens, so I'm not a stranger to working on cars. I'm not a big Chrysler fan though.

    One thing that I have read is that the manual transmissions are a weak point. I've read about people replacing clutches and whole transmissions under 50k.

    So Jeep owners, what are some common issues that I can expect, and what do I need to know if my wife is using this as a daily driver?
     
    Rating - 100%
    22   0   0
    Dec 29, 2008
    3,746
    113
    Danville
    You might be surprised how little you have to work on it. First, the Pentastar V6 is one of the best in the world. Secondly, the JK was a very mature design by 2017, with the bugs, other than normal Jeep quirks, worked out. My bet is that she'll drive the heck out of it and have zero issues. I've got a 2008 JK with 146k miles on it. It has been pretty good, overall. By 2017, the NSG 370 transmission also had the bugs worked out. Mine had a few issues, but was durable and never left me stranded. Jeep replaced it under the lifetime warranty at 116k miles because it had a rattle. If I didn't have the warranty, it would still be doing fine, but with a rattle in 1st gear mainly going up the driveway. I've not had any chassis issues, at all. No electrical issues. And no engine issues other than what is expected for its age. I've beaten the hell out of it over the years, too, so it wasn't babied other than through meticulous maintenance and keeping it very clean.
     

    maxwelhse

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 21, 2018
    5,415
    149
    Michiana
    I've owned my 99 TJ since 56k miles, bought in 2005... It has around 120k on it now approaching 16 years later so I have some experience in the general idea of driving a Wrangler (did so daily for about 8 years).

    Her 2 & 5-part-B criteria are [strike]utter insanity[/strike] odd to me unless you can fill me in on some more details driving those decisions.

    2 - The single largest advantage of the Wrangler platform as a driver is that it's a convertible that actually makes sense to own in our climate. At minimum, she should factor in the cost of a soft top to go with the initial purchase price and you should have a plan for what to do with the hard top in the summer. If she hates convertibles, I'd buy something other than a Wrangler as there are better options for the money at that point, IMHO.

    5 - Define "family" vehicle. Stuffing 2 kids and cargo for a weekend in a 2 door Wrangler is doable, but not enjoyable. If you mean the two of you are going to take it on the weekly grocery haul while the back seat stays at home, then no problem at all. With the top off, you can move a full size washing machine with one.

    Your other data points just are what they are. If the lady insists, then she insists. So if the manual is junk, then its coming out every 50k miles. Personally, even if that is the case, it's a trade off I'd take. I wouldn't trade my manual in for an auto especially in my Jeep. The softer offroad suspension makes it pretty fun to bang gears in.

    ---

    Other things to think about:

    -CJs/Wranglers are well known to rot the frames. As new as 2017 I wouldn't expect huge issues, but get a decent shop (or you) to run an inspection cam inside the frame rails and have a good look. If they're good, oil the bejesus out of them after purchase and do so annually. This is advice I wish I had gotten years ago as mine is looking "questionable".

    -Make sure you don't buy something with awful gears, or negotiate a discount for them in the price. The 3.23s in that one are close enough to awful that I'd be taking a very long highway test drive with the cruise set at 75 and see what happens... especially with a manual transmission that can't downshift itself, you may be lucky to maintain highway speeds if there is any headwind or incline. My experience is based on my TJ with 3.08s (which should be banned from the production line), but I can't imagine JKs being all that much different and 3.23 is pretty close to 3.08. Mine has 3.73s in it now and it's almost perfect with 31" tires. Depending on the day, I'd take 4.10s.

    ----

    The JK guys will have more specific insights, but those the broad strokes of my experiences with my TJ. I wouldn't have owned it for approaching 16 years if I didn't like it. ;)
     

    Hoosierdood

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    8   0   0
    Nov 2, 2010
    5,360
    149
    North of you
    Her 2 & 5-part-B criteria are [strike]utter insanity[/strike] odd to me unless you can fill me in on some more details driving those decisions.

    2. Hard tops have less road/wind noise. Also easier to clean snow off of and stay warm in the winter. This Jeep also comes with a soft top, which will be used all summer long.

    5. Our kids are 15, 16, 18, 19. So no car seats, and rarely using the back seat except for going to church on Sunday. By family vehicle, I mean grocery runs, going out to eat, etc.
     

    maxwelhse

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 21, 2018
    5,415
    149
    Michiana
    2. Hard tops have less road/wind noise. Also easier to clean snow off of and stay warm in the winter. This Jeep also comes with a soft top, which will be used all summer long.

    5. Our kids are 15, 16, 18, 19. So no car seats, and rarely using the back seat except for going to church on Sunday. By family vehicle, I mean grocery runs, going out to eat, etc.

    I understand they've been destroying this with "technology" in the newer generations, but Jeeps are just loud. Embrace the pain. ;) Glad to hear she's not allergic to convertibles and that really is half the reason to own one, IMO. Also, they fixed Wrangler heaters after the YJ. Mine will boil you out of it even with the soft top, and I've heard JKs are even better. Same story with AC.
     

    SOUP

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Jan 13, 2013
    303
    43
    Noblesville
    Have you looked into the new Bronco?

    If you're sold on jeep, maybe wait until people start trading in their jeeps for broncos. It's bound to happen due to it being the new kid on the block. You may score a damn good deal on a used jeep at a Ford dealership soon. Myself included lol.
     

    Bigtanker

    Cuddles
    Emeritus
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    24   0   0
    Aug 21, 2012
    21,688
    151
    Osceola
    I'm not sure which years this affected but the V6 loves to have the lifters go out and take the camshafts with them. It isn't a cheap fix.
     
    Rating - 100%
    22   0   0
    Dec 29, 2008
    3,746
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    Danville
    I'm not sure which years this affected but the V6 loves to have the lifters go out and take the camshafts with them. It isn't a cheap fix.

    Mainly 2012, and it had to do with overheating of valve seats on one cylinder, on one specific side. They extended the warranty on them. My buddy has a 2012 with about 80k and no issues, but he got the warranty extended without asking. It turned out to be less than 1% had the problem, but so many were made that the problem looked common. There may have been a few early 2013's, as well. I've not seen a 2013 with that defect. Pentastar is among the most reliable V6's out there. There are well over 10,000,000 on the road. They can have a lifter/rocker go bad, but that is a relatively easy fix, and again, it only seems common because there are so many out there.

    I have a friend who was on the Pentastar design team. He no longer works for FCA, but has told me it is still to this day one of the most reliable and durable V6's on the market, for several reasons. One is that it was built with forced induction in mind, so it is stronger than it needs to be, particularly in the lower end. He said the bottom end is more rigid than just about any other engine, incuding small block Chevys. There is a Pentastar out of a Promaster van with 625,000 miles on it on Youtube that only failed due to timing chain guides breaking and the chains being stretched. He said it is actually fairly common for them to reach that far and beyond. He gave a couple tips to keep a Pentastar running for hundreds of thousands of miles. First, don't ever run E85. (He recommends against it in any engine intended to last). It strips oil from cylinder walls. Second, don't use ESS (only later Pentastars have the start/stop feature). He said bearings and other parts were coated with anti-wear coatings, but he is not familiar with them, so he doesn't trust them yet. Third, don't cruise below 1575 RPM. The timing chain won't be "hydraulic" until that rpm, meaning it takes that many rpms to ride on a film of oil, thus not having metal/metal contact. Finally, he said run it hard. The Pentastar loves to be run hard because it keeps fresh oil going to the valve train, which is very complex.

    If anyone has any questions about the Pentastar, I can run them by him. He personally drives a Chrysler 300 with the Pentastar and loves it.
     

    Bigtanker

    Cuddles
    Emeritus
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    24   0   0
    Aug 21, 2012
    21,688
    151
    Osceola
    My 2013 had that issue. Cost me 4 cams too. Only had 85,000 miles on it. I can pick out that ticking from across a parking lot. I hear it a lot in the minivans.

    I know a couple that has a 2016 with the same issue. Only ~50k miles.
     

    Mounty09

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    18   0   0
    Dec 12, 2010
    839
    63
    Noblesville
    A designer for the Pentastar says is a great design... Seems a bit biased. I had a Professor at Purdue who was part of the design team at Chrysler who designed the transmission for the Intrepids and minivans that always blew up. He always commented on how great of a transmission it was...

    I have always loved Wranglers but I will never own a Chrysler product.
     

    Hoosierdood

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    8   0   0
    Nov 2, 2010
    5,360
    149
    North of you
    We have had a 2012 Dodge Journey for about 6 years, and it has the Pentastar engine. In 6 years, I haven't had to do anything to the engine but change the oil. Very happy with the engine. Everything else is a different story. Bad brake design has me changing brakes once a year. Transmission is a dog - doesn't want to downshift, but when it does under load, it wont go to the next gear until it hits red line. At highway speeds, it wont maintain speed in a headwind or up a slight hill so I have to manually downshift to 5th gear just to maintain speed. Electrical and sensor problems out the wazzoo. I'll be happy to get rid of it.
     

    CindyE

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Jul 19, 2011
    3,006
    83
    north/central IN
    My wife has always wanted a Jeep. For over 25 years she has dreamed of one day owning one. As far as the options go, she does have a few non-negotiables.

    1. Has to be manual trans
    2. Has to have a hard top.
    3. Has to be 2 door. She hates 4 door jeeps.
    4. Has to have a 6 cyl engine.
    5. 2-3 years old, with low miles. This will be a daily driver family vehicle.


    I have been looking for months, and it is extremely difficult to find a decent used Jeep that meets all these criteria. HOWEVER, I have finally found one HERE:
    https://www.hzplainwell.com/used-Battle+Creek-2017-Jeep-Wrangler-Sahara-1C4AJWBG9HL572659

    It's a 2017 Wrangler Sahara with 30k miles.

    I've been researching common issues with Jeeps so that I know what I'm in for. I work on my own vehicles. We own 4 Volkswagens, so I'm not a stranger to working on cars. I'm not a big Chrysler fan though.

    One thing that I have read is that the manual transmissions are a weak point. I've read about people replacing clutches and whole transmissions under 50k.

    So Jeep owners, what are some common issues that I can expect, and what do I need to know if my wife is using this as a daily driver?

    Your wife has the same criteria I'd have, if i was seriously in the market for a newer Jeep. I have a 2004 TJ. Took the back seat out so i can haul dogs and groceries easier. I don't like the looks of the 4-doors either, but if more than 2 people are going to be in it, unless very rarely, I'd have to go with the 4-door. I think the Wrangler is a great vehicle for getting around town, and it's easy to park, but I don't really care for the way mine handles on the highway or backroads. Of course, mine is older and close to 150k now.
     

    maxwelhse

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 21, 2018
    5,415
    149
    Michiana
    Your wife has the same criteria I'd have, if i was seriously in the market for a newer Jeep. I have a 2004 TJ. Took the back seat out so i can haul dogs and groceries easier. I don't like the looks of the 4-doors either, but if more than 2 people are going to be in it, unless very rarely, I'd have to go with the 4-door. I think the Wrangler is a great vehicle for getting around town, and it's easy to park, but I don't really care for the way mine handles on the highway or backroads. Of course, mine is older and close to 150k now.

    I agree with all of this. I've done a lot of highway driving in mine, and it does fine (Cindy is getting where steering and suspension work is likely to be a good idea... I rebuilt all of mine at 100k just to play it safe), but they're not commuter vehicles. Every generation gets a little better in that regard, but there's only so much you can do when you let that much air under a short wheel base vehicle that is shaped like a brick.

    For about 5 years I had about a 20 minute commute around 469 and pretty much every day I dreaded it. It's also worth mentioning that at highway speeds, if there is even a slight chance of snow or ice, I put mine in 4, period. They're so short that the rear will come around faster than you can react. The later models with ABS and traction control and all of that likely do much better in that regard.

    The plus side of all of that is that I also had to take a job that required me to drive 200 miles out of town every week directly to the shore of Lake Michigan in the middle of the winter. Several times I had to make that drive in 6"+ of new fallen snow and it never had a problem doing it w/excellent tires.
     
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