Weird electrical behavior

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  • Cameramonkey

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    OK, this is bizarre. Maybe one of you crusty electricians can shed some light on this.

    I am replacing a manual shut off box in a shelter house and adding a separate light switch for the lights. (before that cutoff was used as a light switch too) It powers a series of three light sockets and one outlet. I installed the new outlet and replaced the boxes and conduit. I also broke it out into a junction box so I could wire up the various things without cluttering the main box. This morning at 8 AM everything tested good. I flipped on the lights to finish adding stuff and I added another wire to add another outlet. Plugged in a device and it powered up.

    I saw the middle socket didnt have a bulb, so went to add a bulb.. No can do, it was broken off, need to replace it. As I was unscrewing the socket from the box, I heard a faint sizzling from inside that box. I immediately cut power and finished disconnecting.


    I figured out due to how short and mangled the wires are, I cant just reconnect. I have to pull the wires back through the top of the board and junction it there or rewire the whole thing. So I wirenutted the bare wires and applied power again. Now Nothing powers. When I put my tester on the outlet It now shows hot and ground are reversed. Even if I physically swap hot and ground it still shows they are swapped. Broken feed wire leaking current Between conductors? I even tried only connecting the outlet to the feed and removing all other wires in the shelter from the circuit. No change. The only thing I didnt do was remove the new cutoff box from the circuit. But I cant see how a simple switch could do that.

    Ideas?
     
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    TangoFoxtrot

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    OK, this is bizarre. Maybe one of you crusty electricians can shed some light on this.

    I am replacing a manual shut off box in a shelter house and adding a separate light switch for the lights. (before that cutoff was used as a light switch too) It powers a series of three light sockets and one outlet. I installed the new outlet and replaced the boxes and conduit. I also broke it out into a junction box so I could wire up the various things without cluttering the main box. This morning at 8 AM everything tested good I flipped on the lights to finish adding stuff and I added another wire to add another outlet Plugged in a device and it powered.

    I saw the middle socket didnt have a bulb, so went to add a bulb.. No can do, it was broken off, need to replace it. As I was unscrewing the socket from the box, I heard a faint sizzling from inside that box. I immediately cut power and finished disconnecting.


    I figured out due to how short and mangled the wires are, I cant just reconnect. I have to pull the wires back through the top of the board and junction it there or rewire the whole thing. So I wirenutted the bare wires and applied power again. Now Nothing powers. When I put my tester on the outlet It now shows hot and ground are reversed. Even if I physically swap hot and ground it still shows they are swapped. Broken feed wire leaking current Between conductors? I even tried only connecting the outlet to the feed and removing all other wires in the shelter. No change. The only thing I didnt do was remove the new cutoff box from the circuit. But I cant see how a simple switch could do that.

    Ideas?
    Take a volt meter and see if there is any voltage when you touch one side on ground and the other on neutral.. assuming polarity is correct, if it shows voltage then somewhere you have a hot crossing to neutral or ground

    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Take a volt meter and see if there is any voltage when you touch one side on ground and the other on neutral.. assuming polarity is correct, if it shows voltage then somewhere you have a hot crossing to neutral or ground

    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

    Like maybe before it arrives at the box? that feed wire is pretty janky. And MAN is that early 80s copper hard. Stiff AF.
     

    TangoFoxtrot

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    Like maybe before it arrives at the box? that feed wire is pretty janky. And MAN is that early 80s copper hard. Stiff AF.
    It sounds like you only have 4 or 5 connection points? If so, I would start it the one at the end of the series... if you have any parallel connections i would also disconnect those before testing and with all the wires open, use thr ohms test to see if you find any shorts like test from hot to ground and neutral to ground

    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
     

    Cameramonkey

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    I still see the problem with only the outlet plugged in to the power feed. Power comes into the cut off switch then goes directly to the outlets with nothing else connected to power.


    That is why I suspect it’s the power feed.


    I am headed that way right now to replace utility power feed and power The circuits there a UPS back up battery acting as simulated utility voltage.


    At least I will after this thunderstorm passes LOL
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Damn it. It’s the feed. It runs fine when I disco the feed wires and substitute another source of power.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    What feeds the feed?
    Output from a step down transformer?
    Another disconnect?
    Breaker on the main panel. I suspect the bend where the feed makes the hard 90 to enter the cutoff switch was sketch to begin with. And that short that I think I heard as I was removing the socket may have push it over the edge?

    Im going to carefully cut the riser conduit where it comes up out of the ground and replace the last 6' to see if that helps. Nothing else makes sense.


    I finished all work using the alternative power source flowing through the cutoff switch. Shelter is solid, so the problem has to be before it hits the cutoff switch.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Oh, and if I put in a day's work redoing this thing only to have to replace the 100 yard underground feed I'm gonna be PISSED.
     

    Mr Evilwrench

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    Remember, any junction must be inside a box, to keep the five year old girls from taking your electrons. Seriously, if you have a fire and they find two wires in a wire nut hanging out in space, it'll get you a "faulty wiring" ding and just try to have the claim paid by insurance.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Remember, any junction must be inside a box, to keep the five year old girls from taking your electrons. Seriously, if you have a fire and they find two wires in a wire nut hanging out in space, it'll get you a "faulty wiring" ding and just try to have the claim paid by insurance.


    Yep. Cut the conduit, add a box, continue the conduit on the other side. In case you havent seen these, these are awesome.

    SpliceLine® In-Line Wire Connectors

    And part of the reason for the rebuild was to bring it up to code. rusted boxes, exposed conductors, EMT bent with what looked like a pipe wrench, no GFI, etc.
     
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