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  1. #121
    Grandmaster Dirtebiker's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by j706 View Post
    If they thought they needed to search me,my car or my home I don't care. They won't find one single illegal thing on or in any of the above. I follow the law and have no worry's of incriminating myself. I am not hiding from anyone and I am not hiding anything. Guess I must be in the minority here. Must suck looking over your shoulders all the time and freaking out every time you see a police car or a LEO. Holy Cow!!
    I think the argument here is a persons GOD given rights, also spelled out in The Constitution of The United States.
    It doesn't matter if you have anything to hide or if you are doing anything illegal!
    A gov't official is limited by law and The Constitution, to what he can legally
    do!
    It seems by your statements above, you don't think anything bad could come from just doing what your told, and let the officer do what he wants! That's fine, let them frisk your Wife and children (if you have them)! Let them come into your home and take inventory to make sure you don't have anything that you shouldn't have! Let them take all your rights, if you want, but leave mine alone!

    Others have stated that you are a police officer, if so, you would have taken
    the Oath when you were sworn in. Not knowing you, I don't judge you! But from the few comments I have read from you, it seems like you have a twisted idea that your opinions and beliefs are the only "right" ones, and that everybody else should behave the way you would dictate!
    Well, newsflash.... This is still the UNITED STATES of AMERICA!!! Like it or not!
    True Americans will stand up for their( and your) rights and freedoms!

  2. #122
    Grandmaster Dirtebiker's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by j706 View Post
    Yea that is kinda broad isn't it? I would answer any question asked of me during a traffic stop,check point or whatever. My main point is I will not sit there and sound like a parrot about not answering basic questions without a lawyer present. Silly IMO.
    "ANY" question???? Are you kidding me? Earlier I believe you said any legal question.
    That's the point... You are only required to answer certain questions! What is the point in doing any more than that?

  3. #123
    Sharpshooter ElsiePeaRN's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotdoger View Post
    So our rights apply to citizens in other countries?
    jbombelli's response pretty much says it. Natural Rights belong to ALL people, not only US citizens. Here in the US, we just required our government to protect them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotdoger View Post
    Do armed invaders have the same "rights" as US citizens?
    Well as a matter of fact... sort of. They are human beings also. They have by nature of their birth into the human race rights such as life, liberty, privacy, thought, expression, beliefs, worship or not, etc.

    The fact that they are armed aggressors changes the rules, however. They did NOT have the right to be an aggressor, and in doing so, trampled on the rights of those they invaded, opening them to counter-attack.

    If a non-US citizen is walking down the street minding his own business, you do not have the right to shoot him. He has a right to life, and you do not have a right to deprive him of that. If anyone-US citizen or not- attempts to deprive YOU of your right to life, liberty, property, etc. you have the right to defend yourself even if it means taking his life.

    So, how can he have a right to life and you also have the right to take it?

    There is actually a theory called "moral forfeiture" that says by violating another's right to life or sphere of autonomy, an aggressor forfeits his own right to life or autonomy. So, your armed agressors had all the same rights you did, but when they became aggressors, the rules changed. That is how our legal system can justify prisons, death penalties, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    ...99% of our laws should not exist. It does not take thousands upon thousands of pages to say "mind your own business and keep your hands to yourself".

  4. #124
    Shooter

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    no matter how universal the rights we have are. im not shedding one tear or drop of blood or giving .50 cents to establish those rights for a non U.S. Citizen. they can go back to their own countries and fight for it on their own.
    I have no problem seeing an illegal come here and getting their face stomped into the ground. as soon as its found out they were an illegal, all paperwork should be stopped.

  5. #125
    Sharpshooter ElsiePeaRN's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by E5RANGER375 View Post
    no matter how universal the rights we have are. im not shedding one tear or drop of blood or giving .50 cents to establish those rights for a non U.S. Citizen. they can go back to their own countries and fight for it on their own.
    You don't have to But thousands of American soldiers have done just that-- in places like Viet Nam, Korea, Europe, and now the Middle East. What do you think we are doing when we run around the world trying to forcefully spread democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by E5RANGER375 View Post
    I have no problem seeing an illegal come here and getting their face stomped into the ground. as soon as its found out they were an illegal, all paperwork should be stopped.
    I'm also not suggesting that natural rights are the same as legal rights. They have no legal right to be here, and they have no legal right to stay here. But they do have the natural right (and, I'm pretty sure the legal right as well) not to have their face stomped into the ground. According to the theory of moral forfeiture, when you start stomping, you forfeit your right not to be stomped right back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    ...99% of our laws should not exist. It does not take thousands upon thousands of pages to say "mind your own business and keep your hands to yourself".

  6. #126
    Master USMC_0311's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by E5RANGER375 View Post
    no matter how universal the rights we have are. im not shedding one tear or drop of blood or giving .50 cents to establish those rights for a non U.S. Citizen. they can go back to their own countries and fight for it on their own.
    I have no problem seeing an illegal come here and getting their face stomped into the ground. as soon as its found out they were an illegal, all paperwork should be stopped.
    Man you have to come to terms with this inner anger you have. I know you and I don't think you would stand by and watch them get stomped. I have made mistakes before but I doubt I am wrong about this. I think you are mad at the government not the illegal aliens. Most just want the same things we want.

    Lets give all illegal aliens amensty on our terms.

    1 learn english
    2 learn the constitution/country history (mandatory appleseed)
    3 Get real SSN, job, pay taxes, vote and enjoy our way of life as allies.

    This will bring our country back to the great republic it can be. If anyone believes in the same rights as I do I want them on my side.
    Last edited by USMC_0311; 05-03-2011 at 12:40.
    "There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter"
    Ernest Hemingway

  7. #127
    Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by finity View Post
    While they are in this country? Yes. Absolutely.

    While they are in their home country? They should be but we have no control over the Rights their governments infringe on. So the correct answer is: It depends.



    Really? That's a serious question?
    Sure is!

    Where do you draw the line?

    Armed invaders , unarmed?

    If they have Depends on or not?

  8. #128
    Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbombelli View Post
    They're not "our" rights. They're held universally by all people. Our Constitution and Bill of Rights simply recognize them. THESE DOCUMENTS DO NOT GRANT THEM. We simply recognize and honor them here (although that's pretty questionable itself these days).

    If other governments infringe upon those rights, then it falls upon those people to remedy the situation. That is something we cannot control. Although admittedly we often end up stomping around in other countries in order to help those people recover those rights.


    Armed invaders are committing an act of war and violating the sovereignty of another nation, as well as the rights of the people therein. They do NOT have the right to do THAT.

    Perhaps you can show us all where the Constitution or Bill of Rights limits the definition of the term "people" to mean only citizens of this country.
    So 2nd admin. does not apply to Jaun crossing the RioGrande?

  9. #129
    Grandmaster Rookie's Avatar

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    Do illegals get read their Miranda rights if they are arrested? Seems the government realizes they have rights even if you don't.

  10. #130
    Shooter

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    Terry, from CheckPoint USA knows how to deal with the Border Patrol. He's had many run ins with them and even had the courts back him up. This is how you deal with a suspicionless checkpoint run many miles from the US border. OP did a good job, but he could do better, next time. Terry has many videos of his interaction with these goons, all available on his YouTube channel.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/user/CheckpointUSA#p/a/u/0/DDLlEh0x2XA[/ame]

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