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  1. #31
    Grandmaster LPMan59's Avatar

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    i normally don't get into the pissing matches involving LEOs, but i am disturbed by j706's remark. i'd like to think it was sarcasm, but i doubt it.

    i admit i probably wouldn't have take the OP's route, but i hardly blame him for anything. in fact, well done! perhaps i should try this approach should i have any future interactions with the law.
    Upwing Extremist

  2. #32
    Grandmaster theweakerbrother's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by j706 View Post
    It seems to me that hiding behind the "I won't answer questions without my lawyer stuff" is good advice for criminals. I think it is poor advice for non criminals. I also think it is a bad influence on one's children.
    "If not now, then when?" - הלל

    Citizen Rule #1: Make it home safe at the end of the day.
    Dave Ramsey - http://www.daveramsey.com/new/baby-steps/

  3. #33
    Shooter

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    IMHO, the random road block/check-point thing is unconstitutional to begin with, and I think the OP did a stellar job.

    I really REALLY need to quit reading these threads. It gets me all jacked up, angry, and ready to throw...none of which are good for one's general well-being.

  4. #34
    Shooter

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    Quote Originally Posted by j706 View Post
    So what was the point in being a d---? Were you hiding something illegal or is just your thing to hassle guys attempting to do a job? I am a little confused I guess. I am embarrassed for you,your wife and kids. Sheezzz.

  5. #35
    Grandmaster theweakerbrother's Avatar

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    I have to temper my above post with the already echoed ideas of the rights of citizens and the very real scenarios where we relinquish info at the point of a gun, figuratively speaking... and sometimes literally.

    To J706,

    I understand your perspective a bit because of your potential constant and repetitious negative encounters with criminals who flex their rights in your presence. "We didn't see anything happen to that young man, officer. I don't know how he got stabbed/shot/clubbed/beat et all." You see mothers tell their impressionable kids to never talk to the police and it is in reference to protecting a guilty family member from convicting them from a crime that they committed. Or maybe its after you've tackled a dirtbag who was caught red handed stealing from a store/individual who immediately wants to talk to his lawyer and says he was set up/framed/whatever.

    The difference between these scenarios and the ones presented where legal law abiding citizens committing no crimes who refuse to answer questions presented to them from the arm of the .gov who has the potential to do great harm to them is not the same. It may be perceivably rude but it isn't necessarily your business where a person came from, where they may be going and why they're out late at night.

    Fortunately, what's left of the constitution allows both law abiding citizens to flex their rights. You should be thankful for that because it makes your job easier because these are people who pay constant attention to the law and are rarely the cause for you to exercise your granted authority over them by collaring them off to jail. These same protections are also afforded to criminals caught red handed and those suspected of criminal activity who are actually innocent. The right to a fair trial should be extended to everyone when possible (example: I'd rather have someone popped in the act of a violent crime where the loss of innocent life than have them stand trial).

    If I refuse to answer someone's questions because I'm flexing my rights, those rights should be respected. After all, you swore an oath to uphold those rights even if you disagree with them.

    Now take a moment to be a bit philosophical. Which is more morally apprehensible, to break an oath sworn before brothers, God and community or have someone refuse to answer questions that one has no legal obligation to answer?

    "If not now, then when?" - הלל

    Citizen Rule #1: Make it home safe at the end of the day.
    Dave Ramsey - http://www.daveramsey.com/new/baby-steps/

  6. #36
    Master USMC_0311's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by MACHINEGUN View Post
    Even though I think this whole thread is totally ridiculous.. I find your comment even more ridiculous!

    I'm glad to see you finally admit people who carry concealed are criminals in YOUR mind!
    Now Mike he didn't say that.

    I thought the OP was very informative but yes some of the comments were ridiculous.
    "There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter"
    Ernest Hemingway

  7. #37
    Expert SirRealism's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by MACHINEGUN View Post
    Even though I think this whole thread is totally ridiculous.. I find your comment even more ridiculous!

    I'm glad to see you finally admit people who carry concealed are criminals in YOUR mind!
    He said criminals carry concealed. He didn't say those who carry concealed are criminals.


    Sarcasm will not be highlighted in purple.

  8. #38
    Plinker Gareth's Avatar

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    LEOs have the right to check IDs, vehicle registration, and proof of insurance documents. But they do not have the right to pump citizens for any additional information, such as their place of origin, and/or their intended destination. When they do this, they are exceeding their authority, and I would not answer such impertinent questions. If they insist on doing so, then I would insist they Mirandize me, or let me continue on my way unharassed.

    America is not a turd world banana republic, yet, regardless of what the trendy, "tactical" oriented wannabe paramilitary posers that are infecting civilian police departments are entertaining wet dream fantasies about.

    My sincere prayer: God, please bring back the "Adam 12" style LE code of conduct when gentlemen with badges performed their duties in a courteous, respectful manner that warranted reciprocation from the public they served, because I really hate the thought of being verbally insulted and physically brutalized for being "too slow" presenting my license and registration during a routine traffic stop, for example.
    I am a peaceful man. But I am not a pacifist.

  9. #39
    Expert SirRealism's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wwwildthing View Post
    These checkpoints are a direct result of Arizona Senate Bill 1070. I'm guessing you 'got a pass' with your attitude... because you don't look Hispanic.
    AZ 1070 allows state LEOs (not border patrol) to ask for proof of citizenship during a lawful stop for something else.

    How does that apply here?


    Sarcasm will not be highlighted in purple.

  10. #40
    Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by j706 View Post
    So what was the point in being a d---? Were you hiding something illegal or is just your thing to hassle guys attempting to do a job? I am a little confused I guess. I am embarrassed for you,your wife and kids. Sheezzz.

    Let me reiterate...



    Your post is simply ridiculous.

    Please stop making it harder on your fellow LEO's who actually do a good job & follow the Constitution & their oaths.

    A question to the mods:

    In the other thread about a cerain Circle Center Mall incident you threatened to ban the OP for just stirring the when you had no real evidence that's what he was intentionally doing.

    Does that count for everyone or does the fact that j706 is a cop make him immune from being banned for this obvious attempt just to get the Rights minded members of all riled up?

    I see no real usefullness to his post except to piss people off & give LEO's more difficulty in countering the "you're all alike" charge.

    Isn't that the true definition of "troll"?

    Ok, Ok. I'm not really suggesting he be banned but neither should anyone else except for the most egregious of violations.

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