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  1. #21
    Master NateIU10's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pami View Post
    Just out of curiosity, which states have you lived in?
    +1

    Coming from MD, I am overjoyed by the laws here, but still know they are far from perfect.


  2. #22
    Cogito, ergo porto.
    Bill of Rights's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Freeman View Post
    Mill, no, not crazy at all and not restrictive. It makes a very bright line rule. If you have a LTCH, you can carry any pistol you legally have. If you do not have a LTCH, then you cannot carry/transport unless you fit into one of the several exceptions or the LTCH requirement does not apply to you.

    This is isn't any other state, not Tejas, not Joe-juh, not Tinuhsee. This is Indiana, get the license. Kirk's First Law is in full effect.

    I have lived in two states in my life. The other was Texas. At the time, no one who didn't wear a badge could legally carry a gun. Granted, it didn't affect me back then, because I didn't own any, but even so, still today only a LEO can carry openly, and even today, a simple sign placed in a business can forbid even that, with force of law; that is, the simple act of walking past a sign while armed is a criminal act. In addition, there are many places that are forbidden even without the sign, including any business that makes more than 51% of it's revenue from the sale of alcoholic beverages, any high school, college, or professional sporting event, polling places on election day, and the list goes on. You also must notify a LEO that you are carrying if stopped. None of these things are true in Indiana.
    Some states force you to get a permit just to be allowed to purchase a firearm. Not Indiana. Some make you run away, rather than defend yourself in a place you have every right to be, such as, for example, your own home. Not Indiana.
    Indiana has one restriction on the type of firearm you may own, and only that one: No sawed-off shotguns. No "assault weapon bans", no microstamped ammo-in fact... well, let's ask the Bradys what they don't like about us:
    Code:
    CURB FIREARM TRAFFICKING(35 Points)
     
    Gun Dealer Regulations (12 pts)
     State license required 2 2
     Record keeping and retention 2 0
     Report records to the state, and state retains records 2 0
     Mandatory theft reporting of all firearms 2 0
     At least 1 store security precaution required 2 0
     Inspections by police are mandated (2)/permitted (1) 2/1 0
    Limit Bulk Purchases (10 pts)
     One handgun per month, no exceptions 10 0
     One handgun per month, 1 exception 6 0
     One handgun per month, 2 or more exceptions 3 0
     Crime Gun ID (10 pts)
    Ballistic fingerprinting 5 0
     Require microstamping on semi-auto handguns 5 0
    Report Lost/Stolen Guns (3pts)
     Mandatory reporting by firearm owners 3 0 2 Total
    STRENGTHEN BRADYBACKGROUND CHECKS(25 Points)
    Universal Background Check (17 pts)
     All firearms 17 0
     Handguns only 10 0
    Permit to Purchase (8 pts)
     Fingerprinting required 2 0
     Safety training/testing required 2 0
     Extend three-day limit for background checks 2 0
     Permit process involves law enforcement 2 0
    Closed Gun Show Loophole** (7 pts) 
    **States with universal background checks on all firearms not eligible for gun show loophole points
     Background check on all firearms for each purchase 7 0
     Background check on handguns only for each purchase 5 0
     Background check on long guns only for each purchase 4 0
     Permit for all firearms, no background check per purchase 3 0
     Permit for handguns, no background check per purchase 2 0
     Permit for long guns, no background check per purchase 1 0
    CHILD SAFETY(20 Points)
    Childproof Handguns (7pts)
     Only authorized users are able to operate new handguns 7 0
    Child Safety Locks (6pts)
     Integrated locks sold on all handguns 3 0
     External locks sold with all handguns 2 0
     Standards on all external locks 1 0
    Child Access Prevention (5pts)
     Ages 16/17 and under 5 0
     Ages 14/15 and under 3 0
     Ages 13 and under 2 0
    Juvenile Handgun Purchases (2pts)
     Must be 21 2 0
    BAN MILITARY STYLEASSAULT WEAPONS(10 points)
    Assault Weapons Ban (5 pts)
     1 feature test 5 0
     2 feature test 3 0
     2 feature test on assault pistols only 1 0
    Large Capacity Magazine Ban (5 pts)
     10 rounds or less 5 0
     15 rounds or less 3 0
    GUNS IN PUBLIC PLACES ANDLOCAL CONTROL(10 Points)
    No Guns Allowed in Workplace(2 Points)
     Employers not forced to allow firearms on premises 2 2
    No Guns on College Campuses(2 Points) 
     Colleges are not forced to allow firearms on campus 2 2
    Not A CCW Shall Issue State(2 Points) 
     Law enforcement discretion when issuing CCW permits 2 0
    No Shoot First Law(2 Points) 
     Deadly force not allowed to be a first resort in public 2 2
    No State Preemption(2 Points)
     Local control of firearm regulations(2)/gun shows only(1) 2/1 0
    OVERALL POINTS: 100 6 Total 8 Overall total
    The red text above indicates Indiana's scores and totals. With eight points, we are tied with Montana and Florida. However, we DO have Castle Doctrine, (what Brady calls a "shoot first law") where they said we did not. That means we really only have six points, tying us with AZ, AR, ID, NM, SD, and WV. Only MS, AK, LA, MO, ND, UT, KY, and OK scored better. Even Vermont, with no CCW/LTCH/whatever issued at all did not score as well as we did, and that's coming from the most vocal opponents we have. Personally, however, I would love to see IN be the first state to score a perfect zero on the Brady's scorecard. The bills I mentioned above will cut four of the points out. I don't see the state license for gun dealers going away... at least not this year. Truth be told, though, at $20/2 yrs, I don't see that as a high priority. Sorry FFLs. It's not that I want to see you guys having to pay stupid licensing fees, I just think there are higher priorities like eliminating Criminal Protection Zones around the state and locking down our LTCH info so it can't be published by media outlets like the Hoosier Times.

    Thanks, Kirk, for your response. I hope my (long) followup did it justice.

    Blessings,
    B
    Last edited by Bill of Rights; 12-25-2008 at 13:51.

    Thanks for your help in keeping this a great forum!
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  3. #23
    Grandmaster Kirk Freeman's Avatar

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    Bill, this is just another example of the popular perception being grafted onto the actual law. Indiana has among the least restrictive carrying laws, but since you do not need a toter's permit in Tinuhsee or wherever, suddenly we are "restrictive" despite the citation to the Brady Bunch that you posted.

    Aside: Yes, I do not understand why the Brady Bunch think we have a duty to retreat. The Indiana Supreme Court eliminated the duty to retreat in 1865.

    But, this ties into Kirk's Second Law: if a state with a large number of electoral votes does something (i.e. Floriduh's elimination of the duty to retreat), then it is the first state in the Union to do something.
    Kirk Freeman, INGO's Dennis Miller of gun culture references

  4. #24
    Cogito, ergo porto.
    Bill of Rights's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Freeman View Post
    Bill, this is just another example of the popular perception being grafted onto the actual law. Indiana has among the least restrictive carrying laws, but since you do not need a toter's permit in Tinuhsee or wherever, suddenly we are "restrictive" despite the citation to the Brady Bunch that you posted.

    Aside: Yes, I do not understand why the Brady Bunch think we have a duty to retreat. The Indiana Supreme Court eliminated the duty to retreat in 1865.

    But, this ties into Kirk's Second Law: if a state with a large number of electoral votes does something (i.e. Floriduh's elimination of the duty to retreat), then it is the first state in the Union to do something.
    It's not for lack of knowledge; I emailed them myself and asked them to correct their error, as I didn't think we should be libeled by a higher score than our law merited. Unsurprisingly, I received no response.

    I'm not sure that your Second Law is completely correct. I think it's more which state does it, starting a trend of others doing so in rapid or semirapid succession. However, I have nothing to back up that theory, since all such of which I am aware are also states with large numbers of electoral votes. (That said, some counties in NY state had Lifetime CCW permits back, IIRC, sometime in the 1950s, but those aren't statewide, nor, I think, are they still Lifetime.)

    The truth is that depending upon what you want, yes, it is possible to see IN law as restrictive. If you want to carry Vermont/Alaska-style, or even just OC without a permit, yes, our law does, in fact, prohibit that. If you want to go to the range to shoot and the range does not have a gunsmith, our laws do presently restrict that to holders of a LTCH. Contrasting that, though, we don't have "may issue" (and per KSL, we were Shall Issue before FL was), we don't charge exorbitant fees, we don't require (but do encourage) safety classes, and if someone lives here, we don't have our licenses expire either.
    I still want to see a Brady Score of 0 for Indiana, though.

    Blessings,
    B

    Thanks for your help in keeping this a great forum!
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  5. #25
    Master straight-shooter's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scutter01 View Post
    Nope. Sorry. Your best bet is to go with someone who has a license. Although, technically to be legal, he'd have to come to your house to pick you up, unless the range you were driving to had a gunsmith onsite.
    Exactly what I did while I was waiting for my permit. My friend came and picked me up when we wanted to go shoot. That way he was legally transporting the firearm.

  6. #26
    Certified Regular Guy esrice's Avatar

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    This is the first time I think I've EVER heard anyone talk about Indiana's gun laws being more restrictive than other states.

    There may be "greater" restriction in one particular area, but on the whole we have VERY FEW restrictions.

  7. #27
    Plinker rkba_net's Avatar

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    Gun laws like life is full of compromises... It is a rather odd law that bans transportation of a handgun in Indiana.... on the other hand our carry permit does not require passport photos or training... and of course we have a lifetime permit (which BTW New York State also has... ... the Indiana Gun Law I most dislike is the ban on SBS's (Short Barrel Shotguns).... as I consider a 12ga shotgun with about a 14" barrel as an ideal house-gun...

  8. #28
    Grandmaster rhino's Avatar

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    I lived in California (the SF Bay Area) for four years. Indiana is a paradise in every conceivable way compared to that cesspool. When you talk gun laws, Indiana is like Heaven on Earth compared to most states if you actually dig into the kind of restrictions they place on their licenses/permits.



    "The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State."
    INDIANA CONSTITUTION
    Article 1 - Bill of Rights - Section 32

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    To prevail you must ACT!

  9. #29
    Grandmaster Kirk Freeman's Avatar

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    which BTW New York State also has
    Riiiight, so I can hop down to New York City and get my lifetime carry license?

    Judges in several New York state counties at one time issued the license as "lifetime" but New York State did NOT have a lifetime license as did Indiana as a statewide non-discretionary system.
    Kirk Freeman, INGO's Dennis Miller of gun culture references

  10. #30
    Plinker dvcr8tor's Avatar

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    I'd never heard this before about transporting a handgun in IN. So, if I'm taking my .22 Colt down to the in-laws farm to do some plinking I'm breaking state law? Am I hearing this correctly? Just want to get it right, if I need to get an LTCH then that's fine, but since I don't CC (and thus haven't paid much attention until now), and I've been in IN for <3 years, I'd like to do what's right.


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