Saps, blackjacks, "coin purses", etc...

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  • Disposable Heart

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    Greenfield, IN
    Illegal? To Carry?

    Also, please link me to the actual law, not hearsay and conjecture. I have yet to see the actual law, I have only seen the ones regulating firearms and no throwing stars. :D I am interested in the legality, I understand the ethics, particularly of using the "thug's" weapons.

    Thanks all!
     

    mercop

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    "Thugs weapons" when I came on the job most cops carried a jack or sap in their waistband. Many trousers are still made with a sap pocket. Most weapons that have been proven effective will be illegal like knucles, saps and jacks.- George
     

    rkba_net

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    Indiana Code 35-47-5


    IC 35-47-5
    Chapter 5. Prohibited Instruments of Violence
    IC 35-47-5-1
    Repealed
    (Repealed by P.L.123-2002, SEC.51.)

    IC 35-47-5-2
    Knife with blade that opens automatically or may be propelled
    Sec. 2. It is a Class B misdemeanor for a person to manufacture, possess, display, offer, sell, lend, give away, or purchase any knife with a blade that:
    (1) opens automatically; or
    (2) may be propelled;
    by hand pressure applied to a button, device containing gas, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife.
    As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.70-2000, SEC.2.

    IC 35-47-5-2.5
    Possession of a knife on school property
    Sec. 2.5. (a) As used in this section, "knife" means an instrument that:
    (1) consists of a sharp edged or sharp pointed blade capable of inflicting cutting, stabbing, or tearing wounds; and
    (2) is intended to be used as a weapon.
    (b) The term includes a dagger, dirk, poniard, stiletto, switchblade knife, or gravity knife.
    (c) A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally possesses a knife on:
    (1) school property (as defined in IC 35-41-1-24.7);
    (2) a school bus (as defined in IC 20-27-2-8); or
    (3) a special purpose bus (as defined in IC 20-27-2-10);
    commits a Class B misdemeanor. However, the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if the person has a previous unrelated conviction under this section and a Class D felony if the offense results in bodily injury or serious bodily injury to another person.
    (d) This section does not apply to a person who possesses a knife:
    (1) if:
    (A) the knife is provided to the person by the school corporation or possession of the knife is authorized by the school corporation; and
    (B) the person uses the knife for a purpose authorized by the school corporation; or
    (2) if the knife is secured in a motor vehicle.
    As added by P.L.72-2006, SEC.9.

    IC 35-47-5-3
    Repealed
    (Repealed by P.L.269-1995, SEC.10.)

    IC 35-47-5-4
    Repealed
    (Repealed by P.L.1-1990, SEC.350.)
    IC 35-47-5-4.1
    Sawed-off shotgun
    Sec. 4.1. (a) A person who:
    (1) manufactures;
    (2) causes to be manufactured;
    (3) imports into Indiana;
    (4) keeps for sale;
    (5) offers or exposes for sale; or
    (6) gives, lends, or possesses;
    any sawed-off shotgun commits dealing in a sawed-off shotgun, a Class D felony.
    (b) The presence of a weapon referred to in subsection (a) in a motor vehicle (as defined under IC 9-13-2-105(a)) except for school buses and a vehicle operated in the transportation of passengers by a common carrier (as defined in IC 8-2.1-17-4) creates an inference that the weapon is in the possession of the persons occupying the motor vehicle. However, the inference does not apply to all the persons occupying the motor vehicle if the weapon is found upon, or under the control of, one (1) of the occupants. In addition, the inference does not apply to a duly licensed driver of a motor vehicle for hire who finds the weapon in the licensed driver's motor vehicle in the proper pursuit of the licensed driver's trade.
    (c) This section does not apply to a law enforcement officer who is acting in the course of the officer's official duties or to a person who manufactures or imports for sale or sells a sawed-off shotgun to a law enforcement agency.
    As added by P.L.1-1990, SEC.351. Amended by P.L.2-1991, SEC.107.

    IC 35-47-5-5
    Application of chapter
    Sec. 5. This chapter does not apply to any firearm not designed to use fixed cartridges or fixed ammunition, or any firearm made before January 1, 1899.
    As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.

    IC 35-47-5-6
    Purchasing or obtaining a rifle or shotgun
    Sec. 6. (a) Any resident of Indiana:
    (1) who is eighteen (18) years of age or older; and
    (2) who is not prohibited by law from obtaining, possessing, or using a firearm;
    may purchase or obtain a rifle or shotgun in Ohio, Kentucky, Michigan, or Illinois.
    (b) Any resident of Ohio, Kentucky, Michigan, or Illinois:
    (1) who is eighteen (18) years of age or older; and
    (2) who is not prohibited by the laws of Indiana, his domicile, or the United States from obtaining, possessing, or using a firearm;
    may purchase or obtain a rifle, shotgun, or ammunition for a rifle or a shotgun in Indiana.
    (c) Any transaction under this section is subject to the provisions of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (82 Stat. 1213, 18 U.S.C. 0.922(B)(3)).
    As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.
    IC 35-47-5-7
    Repealed
    (Repealed by P.L.175-1984, SEC.5.)

    IC 35-47-5-8
    Machine gun
    Sec. 8. A person who owns or possesses a machine gun commits a Class C felony.
    As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.104-2000, SEC.3; P.L.123-2002, SEC.43.

    IC 35-47-5-9
    Operating loaded machine gun
    Sec. 9. A person who operates a loaded machine gun commits a Class B felony.
    As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.104-2000, SEC.4; P.L.123-2002, SEC.44.
    IC 35-47-5-10
    Applicability of statutes relating to machine guns
    Sec. 10. The provisions of section 8 or 9 of this chapter shall not be construed to apply to any of the following:
    (1) Members of the military or naval forces of the United States, National Guard of Indiana, or Indiana State Guard, when on duty or practicing.
    (2) Machine guns kept for display as relics and which are rendered harmless and not usable.
    (3) Any of the law enforcement officers of this state or the United States while acting in the furtherance of their duties.
    (4) Persons lawfully engaged in the display, testing, or use of fireworks.
    (5) Agencies of state government.
    (6) Persons permitted by law to engage in the business of manufacturing, assembling, conducting research on, or testing machine guns, airplanes, tanks, armored vehicles, or ordnance equipment or supplies while acting within the scope of such business.
    (7) Persons possessing, or having applied to possess, machine guns under applicable United States statutes. Such machine guns must be transferred as provided in this article.
    (8) Persons lawfully engaged in the manufacture, transportation, distribution, use or possession of any material, substance, or device for the sole purpose of industrial, agricultural, mining, construction, educational, or any other lawful use.
    As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.104-2000, SEC.5; P.L.123-2002, SEC.45.
    IC 35-47-5-11
    "Armor-piercing handgun ammunition" defined; related offenses
    Sec. 11. (a) As used in this section, "armor-piercing handgun ammunition" means a cartridge that:
    (1) can be fired in a handgun; and
    (2) will, upon firing, expel a projectile that has a metal core and an outer coating of plastic.
    (b) A person who knowingly or intentionally:
    (1) manufactures;
    (2) possesses;
    (3) transfers possession of; or
    (4) offers to transfer possession of;
    armor-piercing handgun ammunition commits a Class C felony.
    (c) This section does not apply to nylon coated ammunition, plastic shot capsules, or ammunition designed to be used in rifles or shotguns.
    (d) This section does not apply to a law enforcement officer who is acting in the course of the officer's official duties or to a person who manufactures or imports for sale or sells armor-piercing handgun ammunition to a law enforcement agency.
    As added by P.L.332-1983, SEC.1. Amended by P.L.327-1987, SEC.2.

    IC 35-47-5-12
    "Chinese throwing star" defined; related offenses
    Sec. 12. (a) A person who:
    (1) manufactures;
    (2) causes to be manufactured;
    (3) imports into Indiana;
    (4) keeps for sale;
    (5) offers or exposes for sale; or
    (6) gives, lends, or possesses;
    a Chinese throwing star commits a Class C misdemeanor.
    (b) As used in this section, "Chinese throwing star" means a throwing-knife, throwing-iron, or other knife-like weapon with blades set at different angles.
    As added by P.L.318-1985, SEC.2.

    IC 35-47-5-13
    Unlawful use of body armor
    Sec. 13. (a) As used in this section, "body armor" means bullet resistant metal or other material worn by a person to provide protection from weapons or bodily injury.
    (b) A person who knowingly or intentionally uses body armor while committing a felony commits unlawful use of body armor, a Class D felony.
    As added by P.L.227-1996, SEC.1.
     

    indytechnerd

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    Here and There
    Indiana Code 35-47-5
    ...
    IC 35-47-5-10
    Applicability of statutes relating to machine guns
    Sec. 10. The provisions of section 8 or 9 of this chapter shall not be construed to apply to any of the following:
    (1) Members of the military or naval forces of the United States, National Guard of Indiana, or Indiana State Guard, when on duty or practicing.
    (2) Machine guns kept for display as relics and which are rendered harmless and not usable.
    (3) Any of the law enforcement officers of this state or the United States while acting in the furtherance of their duties.
    (4) Persons lawfully engaged in the display, testing, or use of fireworks.
    (5) Agencies of state government.
    (6) Persons permitted by law to engage in the business of manufacturing, assembling, conducting research on, or testing machine guns, airplanes, tanks, armored vehicles, or ordnance equipment or supplies while acting within the scope of such business.
    (7) Persons possessing, or having applied to possess, machine guns under applicable United States statutes. Such machine guns must be transferred as provided in this article.
    (8) Persons lawfully engaged in the manufacture, transportation, distribution, use or possession of any material, substance, or device for the sole purpose of industrial, agricultural, mining, construction, educational, or any other lawful use.
    As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.104-2000, SEC.5; P.L.123-2002, SEC.45.
    ...
    snipped to the appropriate part.

    #8 reads to me that as long as I lawfully make, move, use, or sell any thing, for any lawful use, then I can legally own a machine gun.

    This is kindof a threadjack, but in reading the block of code RKBA posted, this jumped out at me. Anyone care to take a stab at interpretation?
     

    Disposable Heart

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    So, while there is not laws on the Indiana books aparently, are there any Federal Laws prohibiting the usage or carry of blackjacks, saps, etc..?

    Everytime I try looking this up, I get nothing. All I get from folks is anecdotal "Some cop told me it's illegal" sort of answer, no actual laws stated.
     

    Bubbajms

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    I don't know, D-H, but my guess is that it's kinda like the "Loaded Long Guns in your Car" law - there simply isn't one..

    Now, as always, there may be local rules to follow, but it doesn't look like the state cares..
     

    bigg cheese

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    IC 35-47-5-13
    Unlawful use of body armor
    Sec. 13. (a) As used in this section, "body armor" means bullet resistant metal or other material worn by a person to provide protection from weapons or bodily injury.
    (b) A person who knowingly or intentionally uses body armor while committing a felony commits unlawful use of body armor, a Class D felony.
    As added by P.L.227-1996, SEC.1.


    This part is just hilarious :).... It's unlawful to use body armor while committing a crime?

    Criminal thinking.... "Well, if I get arrested, I only want to be charged with armed robbery, so I won't wear body armor..."

    hahahahaha!
     

    4sarge

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    FREEDONIA
    it looks like indiana no longer has a aw against blackjacks, brass knuckels, or hat pins....

    some states do still outlaw them.. and Indiana did back in the 80's...

    I'm hoarding the dreaded illegal Chinese Throwing Stars because one never knows when Ninja's may attack ;)

    female-ninjas.jpg
     

    cosermann

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    it looks like indiana no longer has a aw against blackjacks, brass knuckels, or hat pins....

    some states do still outlaw them.. and Indiana did back in the 80's...

    Do you have any idea what the repealed references might be? I went back to 2002 (which is all I can do for free online) and didn't find anything.

    Another reference on use that may be of interest to folks is in Applegate's classic text, "Kill or Get Killed", available free as USMC FM12-80. See pp317-319.

    Kill or Get Killed - History, History-MilitaryWar, and Health-Martial-Arts
     
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    Disposable Heart

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    cosermann

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    I asked a young friend of mine who is studying to be a paralegal to look into this for me.

    I'm told that the old Indiana law referring to (Blackjacks, Nucks, Billies, etc), was 35-23-9-1 and 35-23-9-2 (which I think were rolled forward into 35-47-5-3); all of which were REPEALED. I don't have access to confirm any of this, but for those of you that do, or for those who want to do further research, these references may point you in the right direction.

    I should add, this is NOT, and should not be construed to be legal advice. ;)

    And speaking of fun, blackjack/sap-like products, how about the Sap Cap?:

    SAP CAP - SHOMER-TEC

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-vjaqhXUDc

    The Slap of The Sap Cap
     
    Last edited:

    bigg cheese

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    it looks like indiana no longer has a aw against blackjacks, brass knuckels, or hat pins....

    some states do still outlaw them.. and Indiana did back in the 80's...


    I'm not sure what the law is or if it's even enforced.

    Supposedly, butterfly knives and switch-blades are illegal, but they've been on open display and sale at Crawordsville's Strawberry Festival for many years. I've had butterfly knives since I was 12-13 if memory serves.

    (it's been getting small, so no knife dealers last 2-3 years :( )

    Rest assured, if I can't take a gun, I'll have something on me... For those Monty Python fans out there, I am a big proponent of.....





    "The Pointy Pillow"!
     

    CarmelHP

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    Carmel
    I asked a young friend of mine who is studying to be a paralegal to look into this for me.

    I'm told that the old Indiana law referring to (Blackjacks, Nucks, Billies, etc), was 35-23-9-1 and 35-23-9-2 (which I think were rolled forward into 35-47-3-5); all of which were REPEALED. I don't have access to confirm any of this, but for those of you that do, or for those who want to do further research, these references may point you in the right direction.
    http://www.donrearic.com/sapcap.html

    The citing reference you gave was a little off so it complicated the search:


    IC 35-47-5-3, concerning the prohibition of exposing or offering knucks, a sling-shot or a billy for sale, was repealed by P.L.269-1995, § 10, effective July 1, 1995.
     

    Indy_Guy_77

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    I'm not sure what the law is or if it's even enforced.

    Supposedly, butterfly knives and switch-blades are illegal, but they've been on open display and sale at Crawordsville's Strawberry Festival for many years. I've had butterfly knives since I was 12-13 if memory serves.

    (it's been getting small, so no knife dealers last 2-3 years :( )

    Rest assured, if I can't take a gun, I'll have something on me... For those Monty Python fans out there, I am a big proponent of.....

    I don't see anywhere in the Indiana Code where butterfly knives are illegal... "Automatically opening" knives, such as switchblades, ARE illegal. The "loophole" that some junk vendors utilize is that, somehow, those objects are purported to be letter openers or some such bunk. They have 'em at the Indy 1500, too.

    I just don't think any LEO wants to mess with dealing with it.

    -J-
     
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