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Thread: I am *begging* you, stop carrying on an empty chamber.

  1. #661
    Grandmaster LPMan59's Avatar

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    I have a very close friend who refuses to carry with one in the tube. He is insistent that if he gets into a situation that there will be time to rack the slide. I cannot convince him otherwise. What's really strange is he is aware of the 21ft attack time but still won't carry loaded. Just weird.
    Upwing Extremist

  2. #662
    Grandmaster Cameramonkey's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by LPMan59 View Post
    I have a very close friend who refuses to carry with one in the tube. He is insistent that if he gets into a situation that there will be time to rack the slide. I cannot convince him otherwise. What's really strange is he is aware of the 21ft attack time but still won't carry loaded. Just weird.

    Run a drill with him. Give him a blue gun or toy gun and have it holstered. Then simulate an attack with the " hey, you got a light?" Or other false pretense to get within arms reach. Make him fight you off with his weak hand. And then you capture and trap that support hand so he can see how important being able to get your gun into the the fight with only one hand is. (and I also think carrying in that new fangled ultra hidden urban holster is a joke too for the same reason. And here is yet another reason to hate it
    https://www.facebook.com/TheGunColle...73/?permPage=1 )
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    also, where do we sign up to touch Frank's equipment?

  3. #663
    Grandmaster Bfish's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cameramonkey View Post
    Run a drill with him. Give him a blue gun or toy gun and have it holstered. Then simulate an attack with the " hey, you got a light?" Or other false pretense to get within arms reach. Make him fight you off with his weak hand. And then you capture and trap that support hand so he can see how important being able to get your gun into the the fight with only one hand is. (and I also think carrying in that new fangled ultra hidden urban holster is a joke too for the same reason. And here is yet another reason to hate it
    https://www.facebook.com/TheGunColle...73/?permPage=1 )
    If you can get them to do it this is your best option. I tried to get someone to do this and they refused. They chose to stay ignorant or had other issues beyond their excuses. However, in another instance it worked very well, can't argue with the experience.

  4. #664
    Grandmaster Leadeye's Avatar

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    The old Colt 1902 and Pocket Hammer both did not have a safety, the even older sight safety of the 1900 having been left off. It was just assumed back in pre 1911 days that you carried with an empty chamber. It's a little odd as the Mauser pistol had a good safety allowing those pistols to be carried "cocked and locked".
    Where's the Kaboom? There was supposed to be an earth shattering Kaboom.

    Marvin the Martian

  5. #665
    Grandmaster BehindBlueI's's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webster-dl View Post
    DISCLAIMER: I am not an Operator, Israeli Special Forces, Retired Police Officer, or any other type of expert -- just a CCW'er who reads a lot and practices as much as he can.

    Ayoob once had a discussion about Israeli carry. He said that it was primarily to unify manual of arms in the army (where many armed men are all together and you are unlikely to get into a confrontation by yourself). He mentioned that he would consider Israeli carry if he was carrying certain guns without a safety (I don't remember which -- it wasn't a Glock, and it had something to do with the construction of the gun) and had to carry it "Mexican Carry" for some reason.

    From reading the news reports of the stabbings in Israel, it does sound like they carry with empty chamber. Stories often go: "Terrorist tried to stab Israeli, Israeli drew and dropped gun, Terrorist grabbed gun and "tried to put it into service" (I presume this means he was racking the slide) when he was shot by another bystander".

    I am thinking that Israeli carry is not a bad idea in certain circumstances, but it does work a whole lot better if you are travelling in a group of people -- if there are 10 of you, I imagine that chances are that in an attack many if not most of your side will get their guns into action. If you are by yourself...the equation changes significantly.
    There are times when carrying on an empty chamber is appropriate for military personnel. They generally are working with overwatch and within a group. The military also has the concept of acceptable losses. You must have the mindset of zero losses as an individual fighting alone.
    L'otters are not afraid.

  6. #666
    Grandmaster BugI02's Avatar

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    Just because individuals make poor decisions it doesn't mean governments make better ones

  7. #667
    Plinker singlemalt's Avatar

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    I carry with one ready to go. I train as much as time and money allow but I really am the OFWM and need every advantage I can get.

  8. #668
    Expert ajeandy's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    CARRYING ON AN EMPTY CHAMBER WILL GET YOU KILLED.

    Please, please, please stop doing this. Is it honestly better to carry no gun than carry a gun that's not ready to fight when you pull it. It will get you killed. IT WILL GET YOU KILLED. The bad guys will prevail because of the head start you gave them in the gun fight. They already have the advantage of knowing when the gun fight is going to start.

    CARRYING ON AN EMPTY CHAMBER WILL GET YOU KILLED.

    I'm tired of good guys losing gun fights. So I beg you, please, please, pretty please stop effing hamstringing yourself. If you absolutely can't bring yourself to do carry with a round chambered, carry a revolver with the chamber under the hammer empty.

    CARRYING ON AN EMPTY CHAMBER WILL GET YOU KILLED.

    You don't have to tell me. Carrying on an empty chamber is basically not carrying, almost. If you're too afraid/don't trust yourself or your gun enough to carry ready to use then you probably shouldn't be carrying. No offense to anyone but I've watched countless videos where the perp is already firing on the victim before they know what's happening. With the stress of being fired on and your body reacting to that, carrying an unloaded gun might as well be not carrying, especially if you have someone fighting you up close where they can grab your gun.

    You're already at a disadvantage if the perp gets the drop on you.
    Last edited by ajeandy; 12-21-2015 at 15:05.

  9. #669
    Grandmaster BehindBlueI's's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajeandy View Post
    ...carrying an unloaded gun might as well be not carrying, especially if you have someone fighting you up close where they can grab your gun.
    Or you are outnumbered and can get the pistol out but can't get it racked due to grappling, which is what happened in the incident that led me to originally post this. Never assume you have two hands available, and racking on a belt or shoe is fantastic when you're standing still but no so fantastic when you're being jerked around.
    L'otters are not afraid.

  10. #670
    Expert

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alamo View Post
    UT-Austin has been the flagship campus for panty-wetting about campus carry specifically and guns in general.

    Has anyone ever tracked down an actual Israeli soldier, commando, Mossad agent, or cop, and actually verified "Israeli-carry" is what we think it is? One of these days I am going to visit Israel and find out for myself.
    What the police and army do maybe be different but in the IDF we carried with an empty chamber when we weren't in any kind of 'area of operation': like carrying our rifles to the mess tent or PT. While doing border patrol, not to mention being a war zone like Lebanon, we ALWAYS carried 'locked&loaded'.


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