Road rage in Shelbyville - what if?

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  • LP1

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    Road rage in Shelbyville. Enraged driver pulls up behind a car at a stop light, gets out, walks up to car, punches out the driver's window and threatens to kill them. Does not display a weapon.

    Shelbyville man shatters window and threatens to kill couple for cutting him off | Fox 59

    Two hypothetical scenarios for discussion:

    1) Your car is boxed in and you can't move. OK to draw and fire?

    2) You could pull away, but choose not to. OK to draw and fire?

    Assuming that the driver who was attacked did not deliberately provoke the attacker, it seems to me that the driver would be in reasonable fear of serious bodily injury or death.

    What say you?
     

    eldirector

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    Legally:
    (d) A person:
    1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force,against any other person; and
    (2) does not have a duty to retreat;if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle

    That said, why sit around and wait for him to bust out your window? If he gets out of his car, drive away. I've done that more than once. Yes, you need to leave room to maneuver. You do that, right?
     

    churchmouse

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    Legally:


    That said, why sit around and wait for him to bust out your window? If he gets out of his car, drive away. I've done that more than once. Yes, you need to leave room to maneuver. You do that, right?

    Sometimes Maneuvering is not an option. If it is then put some distance on the situation and get LEO involved.

    If not, with out actually being there it would be very hard to say what I would do. I know what I have done in the past when things go south.
     
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    Sometimes Maneuvering is not an option. If it is then put some distance on the situation and get LEO involved.

    If not, with out actually being there it would be very hard to say what I would do. I know what I have done in the past when things go south.
    This is a much better answer than the one I gave.
     

    Dead Duck

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    Do what you need to do to survive and let the lawyers figure it all out after. That said, I do believe that anyone breaking your vehicles windows are enough to put them down. I would probably do it before that point but because everyone is so scared of "doing the wrong thing" and jail time, it wouldn't hurt to let him whack you a few times to get plenty of witnesses involved before his demise.


    While it is nice to know the law before going into a situation, doing the right thing isn't always legal. :(
     

    Trigger Time

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    Aug 26, 2011
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    Road rage in Shelbyville. Enraged driver pulls up behind a car at a stop light, gets out, walks up to car, punches out the driver's window and threatens to kill them. Does not display a weapon.

    Shelbyville man shatters window and threatens to kill couple for cutting him off | Fox 59

    Two hypothetical scenarios for discussion:

    1) Your car is boxed in and you can't move. OK to draw and fire?

    2) You could pull away, but choose not to. OK to draw and fire?

    Assuming that the driver who was attacked did not deliberately provoke the attacker, it seems to me that the driver would be in reasonable fear of serious bodily injury or death.

    What say you?
    absolutely draw and fire. No problem
    in That situation you don't even have to drive away if you could. While you are in it your car is your castle.
     

    Trigger Time

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    I do know what I would have done. I had mine out of my holster where a guy couldn't see it one day because he stopped in a busy intersection and started walking back to my vehicle. If he would have tried to open my door or bust my window I would have shot him. No doubt about it.
    If you are crazy enough to stop in the middle of a ****ing road and block me in with semis flying around you then you are crazy enough to try to kill me. I don't take chances.
     

    OutdoorDad

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    I have no idea what I would have done.

    But if this story had been reported that the douche-bag who punched out their window (which is very difficult to do without a weapon in your hand) had taken a few shots to the head and was pronounced dead on the scene.... I wouldn't be too surprised or alarmed.
     

    Dead Duck

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    This is the type of garbage we had to put up with L.A. plus "technically" we weren't supposed to be armed and didn't have many rights to fight back with. So doing the right thing in California would definitely be illegal. Sad...:(

    *** Warning Language ***
    [video=youtube;SUnDp76337Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SUnDp76337Q[/video]
     

    w_ADAM_d88

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    So according to castle law it has to be an "occupied" motor vehicle, right?

    So you're in your car and have no room to get away (boxed in). Instead of being in your vehicle and "trapped", you decide to exit the vehicle and confront the person at gun point. Does that change the scenario? Or only if you shoot? What if he backs down, retreats?

    If the vehicle remains "occupied" with say your wife and/or children and you exit does it then remain under castle law? It doesn't specify that you have to be the operator of the vehicle.

    Personally, I try to leave an escape route while driving, but it's not always possible. Honestly, I think if I were in this situation I would not wait for the person to be at my drivers window, breaking the window. I would be exiting the vehicle gun drawn and he'd be looking down the barrel of my EDC, especially if my wife and or child was in the car. I'd rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6.
     

    churchmouse

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    So according to castle law it has to be an "occupied" motor vehicle, right?

    So you're in your car and have no room to get away (boxed in). Instead of being in your vehicle and "trapped", you decide to exit the vehicle and confront the person at gun point. Does that change the scenario? Or only if you shoot? What if he backs down, retreats?

    If the vehicle remains "occupied" with say your wife and/or children and you exit does it then remain under castle law? It doesn't specify that you have to be the operator of the vehicle.

    Personally, I try to leave an escape route while driving, but it's not always possible. Honestly, I think if I were in this situation I would not wait for the person to be at my drivers window, breaking the window. I would be exiting the vehicle gun drawn and he'd be looking down the barrel of my EDC, especially if my wife and or child was in the car. I'd rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6.

    If you have ever been confronted while "In" your vehicle it would be very hard to exit it while an angry individual is standing by the door. The door is a serious weapon to use on you while trying to get out of the car.
    If he has moved away from the door far enough for you to get out then the threat has diminished unless he comes back at you.
    Cell phone, pic, 911, assess.
     

    seagullplayer

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    I try to not make it a habit of cutting people off. Less people are mad at you that way.

    If you are a bad driver, pepper spray in the glove box might be worth considering.
     

    BiscuitNaBasket

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    Dec 27, 2011
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    Road rage in Shelbyville. Enraged driver pulls up behind a car at a stop light, gets out, walks up to car, punches out the driver's window and threatens to kill them. Does not display a weapon.

    Shelbyville man shatters window and threatens to kill couple for cutting him off | Fox 59

    Two hypothetical scenarios for discussion:

    1) Your car is boxed in and you can't move. OK to draw and fire?

    2) You could pull away, but choose not to. OK to draw and fire?

    Assuming that the driver who was attacked did not deliberately provoke the attacker, it seems to me that the driver would be in reasonable fear of serious bodily injury or death.

    What say you?

    The single most important question for both of those is if your life is in danger. If your life is in danger then yes open fire. Do you have a reasonable fear of your life being in danger? Then yes.

    I will not wait for some enraged person to draw a gun or smash out my window before I open fire. If I'm in a state of not being sure or not quite feeling that my life is in danger I will have my gun in my hand at the low ready. The person who approaches my door we'll find out quick that I am ready to counter whatever they might think they can get away with. If they proceed to smash my window out or beat on my window I will have the cops on the phone and my gun in hand.
     

    eldirector

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    Hmm, more than once? What's that say about your driving?
    That I seem to attract the idiots?

    I admit, I do use my horn as a signaling device. I also run about 5-10 over the posted speed, rather than 20+. THAT seems to annoy folks, but meh, whatever.

    I know the OP's question was about the moment of confrontation AT the window. But, there are usually a LOT of precursors. Yelling, flipping the bird, shaking fists, brake checking, etc... before someone is mad enough to leave their own vehicle and approach yours. If all that is going on, and you STILL don't leave enough room to maneuver, or preemptively exit the situation, then you SA is pretty terrible.

    Speaking of pepper spray... my wife had a panhandler reach in through her sunroof while caught at a light (2nd car in line) at the Keystone Mall several years ago. He grabbed her hair and was yelling obscenities. She HOSED him down with OC spray and left him in the street. LE had no problem finding him when she called 911. He was right where he dropped. Cars were still driving around him. ;)
     

    junk

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    state of confusion
    the driver had his gun in his lap . Its rumored that he didn't want to wash the blood off the car , and deal with the courts to get his gun back .
     

    KittySlayer

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    Never get out of the boat... If road rage escalates to the point someone has exited their vehicle things aren't going to get better, they are only going to get worse. Make yourself ready.

    And for those noble passive aggressive drivers, just because you are not flipping people off or honking your horn don't think your passive aggressive actions are any less provocative. Think about that the next time you brake check someone or slow your speed while they are blocked in. Do you want to incite the aggressive attention of that crazy driver? Do you know what he is going to do? Can you win?

    If you have ever been confronted while "In" your vehicle it would be very hard to exit it while an angry individual is standing by the door. The door is a serious weapon to use on you while trying to get out of the car.

    You put that left leg down and get half way out, crazy guy slams door shut on your leg essentially pinning you with no leverage to push back and no means to defend yourself and your head stuck there like a punching bag.

    Cell phone, pic, 1911, assess.

    FIFY
     
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