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  1. #1

    Arrow Man with chainsaw threatening people

    So, some dude allegedly started walking around a gas station in Columbus with a running chain saw, threatening people.

    What are the legal do's and do not's of throwing some lead this dude's way if one is on the scene?

    source: Police: Man arrested for making threats with chainsaw - 13 WTHR Indianapolis
    Fierce defiance

  2. #2
    will argue for sammiches. ATM's Avatar
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    Does he have a bowling ball and an egg nearby?



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  3. #3
    Deadly weapon? Check.
    Threatening someone? Check.

    The remaining part of the equation is distance. Is he close enough to you or someone else to present to REASONABLY present an imminent threat? Distance, barriers (5' away with nothing in between you =/= 5' away but on the other side of a bullet proof window and counter), and time will be the deciding factors. You can also use anything you know as part of your decision making. If he's walking toward a crowd and you've got a brick wall as a background now, but if he keeps moving your backstop is a window with people behind it, that can be part of your decision making toward "reasonable".
    My nuts are the great uniter.

  4. #4
    Marksman Joniki's Avatar
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    5'??? Screw that. 22 feet and coming towards me is a bang, bang, bang, bang....

    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    Deadly weapon? Check.
    Threatening someone? Check.

    The remaining part of the equation is distance. Is he close enough to you or someone else to present to REASONABLY present an imminent threat? Distance, barriers (5' away with nothing in between you =/= 5' away but on the other side of a bullet proof window and counter), and time will be the deciding factors. You can also use anything you know as part of your decision making. If he's walking toward a crowd and you've got a brick wall as a background now, but if he keeps moving your backstop is a window with people behind it, that can be part of your decision making toward "reasonable".
    I just don't feel safe in gun free zones...

  5. #5
    Grandmaster Gluemanz28's Avatar
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    Was his Name Marcel Ledbetter?

    Nermind that was something to do with a screen door on a bar down south for calling Marcel a Redneck!
    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Joniki View Post
    5'??? Screw that. 22 feet and coming towards me is a bang, bang, bang, bang....
    There is no set distance. I said 5' because that's about what separates the customer from the clerk in the bullet proof booth gas stations. It comes down to "reasonable" and that is based on many factors. It might be reasonable at 40 feet, it might be unreasonable at 5 feet. It depends.

    There is no 21' rule. This is a misunderstanding of the Tueller drill, which is a drill and not a rule of law. It is not based on any study of human physiology or the like, it was simply a drill with an arbitrary time limit set up to make a point, not based on how fast a human can react or how fast a human can move. Look up the originator's own statements of how it's been misapplied if you're curious.
    My nuts are the great uniter.

  7. #7
    Am I Being Detained? jbombelli's Avatar
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    Was he looking for deadites?

    There's just one kind of man you can trust, that's a dead man, or a Gringo like me...

  8. #8
    Grandmaster actaeon277's Avatar
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    You know, no matter what, some idiot is going to claim "BUT HE WAS UNARMED!"
    "Una salus victis nullam sperare salutem."

    "A citizen may not be required to offer a 'good and substantial reason' why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The rights existence is all the reason he needs." Benson Everett Legg - Woolard v. Sheridan

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  9. #9
    Grandmaster Kirk Freeman's Avatar
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    Same rules as anyone else: would the reasonable person be in fear of imminent harm of serious bodily injury or death?

    That's the legal test. The reality test is don't take it out of the holster unless you have no other option.

    Don't step in other people's dog poop. Call the boys dripping in qualified immunity. Lawyers cost money.
    "No, I am not calling you Johnny Dangerous."

  10. #10
    Grandmaster Kirk Freeman's Avatar
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    There is no 21' rule. This is a misunderstanding of the Tueller drill, which is a drill and not a rule of law. It is not based on any study of human physiology or the like, it was simply a drill with an arbitrary time limit set up to make a point, not based on how fast a human can react or how fast a human can move. Look up the originator's own statements of how it's been misapplied if you're curious.
    Much wisdom here.

    Dennis Tueller was the FTU at Salt Lake City. After a series of incidents involving SLCPD, Tueller came up with a drill to enlighten his officers on how drawing to a threat in motion was less than optimal and thus using cover and partners should have higher interest for the cops on the street.

    It is not a "law", "rule", "statute" or anything the judge will be familiar with until you spend bolshoi denek on the expert witness. Oh, and if you that it means you are in front of a jury or getting ready to be in front of the jury.

    The best outcome: the sword of no sword.

    "The best indicia of trianing is never having to use it." Clinton A. Smith.

    "No, I am not calling you Johnny Dangerous."

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