Fishers gas clerk arrested for intimidation, PD says pulled gun on theft suspect

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  • ArcadiaGP

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    So... what happened here?

    Fishers gas station clerk arrested for intimidation after police say he pulled gun on theft suspect | Fox 59

    Fishers police arrested a gas station clerk for intimidation after they say he held a shoplifting suspect at gunpoint.

    Police received a call about a theft at the BP gas station near the intersection of East 131st Street and SR 37 around 10:45 a.m. on Tuesday.

    Police tell FOX59 that a man suspected of shoplifting walked out of the BP, and the clerk decided to follow him outside of the store. That’s when police say the clerk pulled a gun on the suspected shoplifter.

    Any of Fishers Finest here on INGO?
     

    KellyinAvon

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    Here's the Indiana Code for citizens arrest. Pointing a gun is deadly force in this state. Like it or not I don't see where the clerk could lawfully draw on the shoplifter. Paging Mr. Relford...

    Indiana Code Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure § 35-33-1-4 - See more at: Indiana Code Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure § 35-33-1-4 | FindLaw

    Indiana Code 35-33-1-4
    Indiana Code Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure § 35-33-1-4 - See more at: Indiana Code Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure § 35-33-1-4 | FindLaw


    Sec. 4. (a) Any person may arrest any other person if:
    (1) the other person committed a felony in his presence;

    (2) a felony has been committed and he has probable cause to believe that the other person has committed that felony;  or

    (3) a misdemeanor involving a breach of peace is being committed in his presence and the arrest is necessary to prevent the continuance of the breach of peace.


    (b) A person making an arrest under this section shall, as soon as practical, notify a law enforcement officer and deliver custody of the person arrested to a law enforcement officer.

    (c) The law enforcement officer may process the arrested person as if the officer had arrested him.  The officer who receives or processes a person arrested by another under this section is not liable for false arrest or false imprisonment.

    - See more at: Indiana Code Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure § 35-33-1-4 | FindLaw
     

    Trigger Time

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    Here's the Indiana Code for citizens arrest. Pointing a gun is deadly force in this state. Like it or not I don't see where the clerk could lawfully draw on the shoplifter. Paging Mr. Relford...

    Indiana Code Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure § 35-33-1-4 - See more at: Indiana Code Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure § 35-33-1-4 | FindLaw

    Indiana Code 35-33-1-4
    Indiana Code Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure § 35-33-1-4 - See more at: Indiana Code Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure § 35-33-1-4 | FindLaw


    Sec. 4. (a) Any person may arrest any other person if:
    (1) the other person committed a felony in his presence;

    (2) a felony has been committed and he has probable cause to believe that the other person has committed that felony;  or

    (3) a misdemeanor involving a breach of peace is being committed in his presence and the arrest is necessary to prevent the continuance of the breach of peace.


    (b) A person making an arrest under this section shall, as soon as practical, notify a law enforcement officer and deliver custody of the person arrested to a law enforcement officer.

    (c) The law enforcement officer may process the arrested person as if the officer had arrested him.  The officer who receives or processes a person arrested by another under this section is not liable for false arrest or false imprisonment.

    - See more at: Indiana Code Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure § 35-33-1-4 | FindLaw
    no you're right. I thought it was a felony so if it's not then he was "legally" wrong. It's a shame. I've been saying for a long time I hope indiana changes the law so you can legally shoot someone who's stealing your car if they don't stop. Why do we care if a car theif or a shoplifter dies? I don't.
    i mean try to stop them first by all means, then shoot to stop the Threa... theft.
    one can only hope. I bet thefts go way down
     

    JDimitri

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    I will say, that in Texas, after dark, you are allowed to shoot an individual who tries to break into or steal your vehicle. As for shooting things, I have to take some discretion. What if said thief is trying to provide for their family in some form or fashion? Yes, I am well aware that there are thieves out there who just want to shop lift just for the thrill of it, but there are some who do so as a means to provide for a starving self or family. To shoot a man for stealing an apple because he has not had any food in days seems a bit over reaching to me. Is it easy to tell the difference? No, but not sure I would shoot someone just because they stole something. With that being stated, in this situations I stated, I look at a non violent criminal act where no weapon or aggression was used. My mindset is completely different when said thief is aggressive/violent.
     

    Trigger Time

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    I will say, that in Texas, after dark, you are allowed to shoot an individual who tries to break into or steal your vehicle. As for shooting things, I have to take some discretion. What if said thief is trying to provide for their family in some form or fashion? Yes, I am well aware that there are thieves out there who just want to shop lift just for the thrill of it, but there are some who do so as a means to provide for a starving self or family. To shoot a man for stealing an apple because he has not had any food in days seems a bit over reaching to me. Is it easy to tell the difference? No, but not sure I would shoot someone just because they stole something. With that being stated, in this situations I stated, I look at a non violent criminal act where no weapon or aggression was used. My mindset is completely different when said thief is aggressive/violent.
    i have ZERO sympathy for thieves and there is no excuse. Let god sort them out
     

    Expat

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    So people can steal off of you all they want and all you can do is wave bye to the stuff and then file a police report for insurance purposes.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    So people can steal off of you all they want and all you can do is wave bye to the stuff and then file a police report for insurance purposes.

    Do you suppose there might be some middle ground between anarchy and pointing a gun at someone for misdemeanor theft? Shopkeeper's rights allows the owner/agent to arrest and hold the person for 2 hours or until LE arrives. You can use reasonable force to do so, although most places won't any longer due to liability concerns. The last chain I knew of that would allow it's employees to kick your backside should you fail to comply was Menard's. Not sure if they have the same policy now.

    Of course I have no idea what actually happened. Intimidation seems like an odd charge if the news story is correct, but I'm not holding my breath for the news story to be correct...
     

    KellyinAvon

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    Do you suppose there might be some middle ground between anarchy and pointing a gun at someone for misdemeanor theft? Shopkeeper's rights allows the owner/agent to arrest and hold the person for 2 hours or until LE arrives. You can use reasonable force to do so, although most places won't any longer due to liability concerns. The last chain I knew of that would allow it's employees to kick your backside should you fail to comply was Menard's. Not sure if they have the same policy now.

    Of course I have no idea what actually happened. Intimidation seems like an odd charge if the news story is correct, but I'm not holding my breath for the news story to be correct...

    This sounds a lot like an NCO's authority to apprehend in the military. "Don't curb stomp a Twinkies thief unless they resist a lot" seems like a good policy.
     

    Expat

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    Do you suppose there might be some middle ground between anarchy and pointing a gun at someone for misdemeanor theft? Shopkeeper's rights allows the owner/agent to arrest and hold the person for 2 hours or until LE arrives. You can use reasonable force to do so, although most places won't any longer due to liability concerns. The last chain I knew of that would allow it's employees to kick your backside should you fail to comply was Menard's. Not sure if they have the same policy now.

    Of course I have no idea what actually happened. Intimidation seems like an odd charge if the news story is correct, but I'm not holding my breath for the news story to be correct...
    For some of us, going "hands on" is no longer an option due to age or some permanent infirmities.
     

    churchmouse

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    For some of us, going "hands on" is no longer an option due to age or some permanent infirmities.

    Truth here.
    Not sure how I would react if some douche bag was stealing one of my cars.
    I do not owe on any of them so they are mine. The key word here is "Mine" and I am not of a mind to just give them up.
    Now to shoot a thief in this day and age is a push by any measure.
    Pistol whipping one into submission and possibly seeing life more clearly not so much. But I am sure there is some code against even this.
     
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    ArcadiaGP

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    What does a "citizens arrest" allow? It seems like attempting to hold a perp until officers arrive should be allowed. Is it because it happened outside?
     

    eldirector

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    Violent felony = deadly force
    Anything less (like theft) = reasonable force

    If this had been a robbery (eg: perp had or threatened to have a weapon, or tried to hurt the shopkeeper), it would be different.

    Of course, I'm not a lawyer. Or a cop. Or in Texas. YMMV.
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    True Kirk Story:

    When I was renting space off Larry O'Connor (the second floor of what is now the Black Sparrow in downtown Lafayette). Stew bum crept up my stairs and snagged a 5 gallon pickle jar full of coins (maybe 200-300 bucks worth) on a book shelf in a conference room which was visible from the street. I was down the hall and saw him leave. He was full value numbnuts, no cover, easy shot down the hallway. Pistol stayed in holster and I simply shrugged and went back to e-mailing or returning phone calls. No way I was going in H2H, I could smell him, it was urine mixed with mental illness and cold wine.

    People stealing from you do not endanger your life. Keep the pistol in the holster. Call the cops, check the security cameras for evidence to turn over to the grumpy old detective who they will send to take the report.
     

    gregkl

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    True Kirk Story:

    When I was renting space off Larry O'Connor (the second floor of what is now the Black Sparrow in downtown Lafayette). Stew bum crept up my stairs and snagged a 5 gallon pickle jar full of coins (maybe 200-300 bucks worth) on a book shelf in a conference room which was visible from the street. I was down the hall and saw him leave. He was full value numbnuts, no cover, easy shot down the hallway. Pistol stayed in holster and I simply shrugged and went back to e-mailing or returning phone calls. No way I was going in H2H, I could smell him, it was urine mixed with mental illness and cold wine.

    People stealing from you do not endanger your life. Keep the pistol in the holster. Call the cops, check the security cameras for evidence to turn over to the grumpy old detective who they will send to take the report.

    I agree. Most people think a gunfight/using deadly force is one fight. There are actually two more fights you will have to handle. Number 2 is the legal fight and number 3 is the emotional fight. You have to win all three and you should consider all three before you start fight number 1.
     
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