Draw fundamentals: full size vs compact

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  • PaulWest

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    What are the recommendations concerning gun size with respect to drawing for use in a self defense setting?

    For a beginner/new carrier:
    Is a full size gun an easier draw than, say, a pocket gun? Or visa versa? Is is recommended to start with one or the other - larger or smaller - and "progress" towards the other?
     

    lovemachine

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    Carrying a gun in a holster, on a belt, is always better, faster, and easier than a gun in the pocket.
    IMO, carrying the largest gun you can conceal comfortably is the best way to go. Larger guns are, generally, easier to shoot with too.
     

    eldirector

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    From my own experience: Proper grip makes the difference. The type of handgun varies by person. My XD sub-compact with the extended mags is somewhat easier to grip quickly vs. the standard mags, which still work well FOR ME. The extended grips don't work at all for my wife, as she has a habit of grasping too low and has to then adjust once her weak hand comes up. My little CM40 actually fits her much better (but she HATES shooting it).

    I'd recommend shooting (and maybe drawing, if that is your concern) as many different guns as you can, until you settle on your own personal Goldilocks.
     
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    I dont see any point in carrying anything other than full size unless you find it uncomfortable. Just about anyone can make a 1911 disappear with the correct holster. Id recomend carrying whatever you shoot best and thats it
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Fundamentals are the same. Establish fighting grip, draw, establish two hand grip if distance allows, extend and pick up front sight as distance allows.
     

    PaulWest

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    Outstanding - thanks gents.

    I was shooting some handguns at a range once, long ago. I remember liking the full size one much better...

    What about body position? What are the schools of thought/arguments for different body position carrying? As in shoulder vs waist or front side waist vs back side waist...
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Outstanding - thanks gents.

    I was shooting some handguns at a range once, long ago. I remember liking the full size one much better...

    What about body position? What are the schools of thought/arguments for different body position carrying? As in shoulder vs waist or front side waist vs back side waist...

    All have pros and cons.

    Appendix is trendy again. Marginally faster draw, more concealable for some, easier access while seated, and easier to draw off-handed. However, tougher to disguise the draw and an ND during draw or holstering can be fatal.

    Shoulder holsters are slower and are for special requirements, such as no belt, drivers or pilots, etc.

    Strong side waist carry remains the standard. A good blend of speed, concealability, and retention. Difficult to draw while seated and seat belted in, though.

    Small of the back is tough to retain in a gun grab and can be dangerous if knocked down. It's also slow.

    A lot depends on body type, environment, and dress style.
     

    HoosierLife

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    I've pocket carried a P938 for years. It is nice to be able to surreptitiously slip my hand in my pocket and grip my firearm during close encounters of the ghetto kind while selling insurance. I also had to go run up to the platform recently during church when some drugged out crazy teen thought it would be a good idea to climb the platform steps while the Preacher was preaching. I had my hand on my gun as I ran up there and no one was the wiser.

    You can't do that when belt carrying without it being very obvious that you are about to draw.

    But it I could comfortably belt carry my 1911, that would be nice while wearing a suit. Just for accuracy and round count.
     

    PaulWest

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    All have pros and cons.

    Appendix is trendy again. Marginally faster draw, more concealable for some, easier access while seated, and easier to draw off-handed. However, tougher to disguise the draw and an ND during draw or holstering can be fatal.

    Shoulder holsters are slower and are for special requirements, such as no belt, drivers or pilots, etc.

    Strong side waist carry remains the standard. A good blend of speed, concealability, and retention. Difficult to draw while seated and seat belted in, though.

    Small of the back is tough to retain in a gun grab and can be dangerous if knocked down. It's also slow.

    A lot depends on body type, environment, and dress style.

    Nice breakdown, sir, thank you. Many things to consider...

    Perhaps fashioning some sort of vehicle seat holster could supplement a side waist carry.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Nice breakdown, sir, thank you. Many things to consider...

    Perhaps fashioning some sort of vehicle seat holster could supplement a side waist carry.

    I'm always hesitant to recommend off body carry. It's too easy to get separated from the weapon. However, in a vehicle is the least terrible of the off body carries.

    The issue becomes how do you secure the weapon when you're not in the vehicle?
     

    Tactically Fat

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    Nice breakdown, sir, thank you. Many things to consider...

    Perhaps fashioning some sort of vehicle seat holster could supplement a side waist carry.

    Except... The more you handle your firearm, the higher the chances/liklihood of a negligent discharge. Like removing the gun from the belt holster, putting it into the vehicle holster, then doing the reverse. Over and over and over... Plus there's being able to keep the firearm in place and under control in a crash. I'm personally not a fan of continually removing the gun from a holster. If the above can be done by removing and remounting the entire holster... Then that's great.
     

    PaulWest

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    I'm always hesitant to recommend off body carry. It's too easy to get separated from the weapon. However, in a vehicle is the least terrible of the off body carries.

    The issue becomes how do you secure the weapon when you're not in the vehicle?

    Hmm. Good point. I was imagining some kind of holster that attaches to the side of the seat...idk if that's a real thing or not. If it was just sitting out on the seat I can for sure see your point: a decent swerve or avoidance maneuver and its all the way out of reach...

    Plus, passengers - cant really expect everyone to sit in the back...
     

    PaulWest

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    I've always envisioned a shoulder holster to be the most comfortable - sounds like that might be the case. Though it sounds like the wisdom is that its a slower draw...

    Is a shoulder holster carry substantially slower? Like, slow enough to be considered a real liability?
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    I've always envisioned a shoulder holster to be the most comfortable - sounds like that might be the case. Though it sounds like the wisdom is that its a slower draw...

    Is a shoulder holster carry substantially slower? Like, slow enough to be considered a real liability?

    Maybe. It depends on the draw and the situation. Generally, a really fast draw isn't what wins gunfights, but if you find yourself behind the curve then it may matter. Faster is usually better.

    A shoulder holster is also easier to foul the draw by trapping your arm. I'm time limited now, more later.

    *EDIT*
    A shoulder holster, particularly an inexpensive/improperly designed one, moves around as you move. That's not great for a consistent draw. It's also nearly impossible to access with your off hand should you be injured or otherwise not have use of your other hand.
     
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