Judge Releases video of Daniel Shaver shooting

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  • eatsnopaste

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    Dec 23, 2008
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    No reason for this man to have been killed. Can one of our legal brethren please tell me why he couldn't have been hand-cuffed while he was face down on the floor, legs crossed and arms stretched out in front of him? Why continue to give him orders and make him crawl towards you? it almost seems like he kept ordering him to do things, waiting on him to make a mistake.
     

    Drail

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    Oct 13, 2008
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    That was quite simply a "Simon Says" control game. You lose - you die. There are some poorly trained police in this country that have became a danger to everyone around them. And it's not just one cop - it's the entire Dept. Every officer in that hallway went along with this insanity. Whoever is teaching this technique should be on trial. We now have a handful of "trainers" traveling around the West and SW U.S. teaching these techniques. I have heard some of them lecture and it's truly disturbing. Justifying these kind of tactics by claiming "officer safety" or " I felt threatened" or "That's how I was trained" doesn't justify it or make it legal under our Constitution. It simply enables it to get worse over time. Being a cop is a very difficult job. Some people do not have the required temperment. This one clearly did not and was incorrectly trained. The suspect should have been ordered to prone out face down and not move and then been cuffed while another officer covered him. Playing Drill Sgt."Simon Says" is just absurd.
     
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    Topshot

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    Oct 16, 2015
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    While I think (hope) they will be guilty in the following civil suit, this post explains what was likely going on in the LEOs heads at the time and why it wasn't considered criminal.
     

    ECS686

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    Dec 9, 2017
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    No reason for this man to have been killed. Can one of our legal brethren please tell me why he couldn't have been hand-cuffed while he was face down on the floor, legs crossed and arms stretched out in front of him? Why continue to give him orders and make him crawl towards you? it almost seems like he kept ordering him to do things, waiting on him to make a mistake.

    Not a Lawyer but 31 years of Municipal and Fed LE experience. I also cringed at that shooting. And while as bad as it was fell within the Graham Vs Conner supreme Court decision almost always referred to in an after action review. That is why he was found not guilty. The Prosecutor (to me) felt there was enough there to warrant the charge on the shooting but to be honest had to know what would happen. It was probably done for public appeasement more than anything. Had nothing to do with his dust cover which as a major department violation they terminated him. An inscription night look bad but a good (or seniority good) shoot is a good shoot. Break department policy you are still good shooting wise just not employment wise.

    Dealing with the training side of LE as a trainer and from what I have read about this case (and obviously the video) the Officer over reacted while legal to the law was still a bad decision. What some LEO's (primarily the young ones with EGOs) forget is as a LEO you should strive to make a mole hill out of a mountain bot the other way around.

    And just because you can doesn't mean you should!
     

    ghuns

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    CPT Nervous

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    Mar 7, 2012
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    I almost lost my s**t when I read that.

    I regained my s**t, to a small extent, in reading that it was basically a scam to get his pension.

    After murder acquittal, Mesa ex-cop Philip Brailsford made a pension deal

    At least he's not back on the street, badge and gun in hand, murdering anyone else.

    I wish his victim's family could take every penny of the $2569/month he's raking in.:xmad:

    "If you reach for your waistband again, we're going to shoot you"

    *reaches for his waistband*

    *gets shot*

    Am I missing something here? It was a good shoot. Brailsford didn't have the benefit of hindsight when he made the decision to shoot. With the information he had, and what he observed, you have to conclude that the shooting was justified.
     

    Ark

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    Feb 18, 2017
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    Execute an unarmed, sobbing man on his knees ----> get $2,500 a month for life because of your PTSD from executing him.

    Man it must be wonderful to be a cop in Mesa.
     

    CPT Nervous

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    Mar 7, 2012
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    Execute an unarmed, sobbing man on his knees ----> get $2,500 a month for life because of your PTSD from executing him.

    Man it must be wonderful to be a cop in Mesa.

    Must be nice to conveniently ignore the furtive movements he was making, his non compliance, and his reaching for his waistband after being warned if he reached for his waistband he would be shot.

    Tragedy, sure, but not murder.
     

    VUPDblue

    Silencers Have NEVER Been Illegal !
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    25   0   1
    Mar 20, 2008
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    Franklin Township
    I'm not in the camp that would call the deceased's movements "furtive". In fact, I don't think they fit that definition whatsoever. To my eye, the deceased's body language read like a scared to death drunk. The OODA Loop is a real thing and again, to MY eye, I saw someone who's pants were coming down as he was crawling and he was instinctively reaching down to adjust them. That adjustment was absolutely contrary to the officer's commands, but furtive they were not. Being drunk and scared, all the while having guns pointed at you and cops yelling at you is not a situation that very much of the population will ever experience. The deceased's body language spoke to me louder than did his actions. Again, I've only been doing this job like 5 minutes, but damn, there's a lot of information to process with even the most basic of human interactions.
     

    Ark

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    Must be nice to conveniently ignore the furtive movements he was making, his non compliance, and his reaching for his waistband after being warned if he reached for his waistband he would be shot.

    Tragedy, sure, but not murder.

    There is something fundamentally broken in your head and in your soul if you can watch that video and conclude gunning him down on his knees with a rifle after screaming contradictory orders was justified.

    He had him AT RIFLE POINT. There was no cause to shoot him for his hand drifting toward his falling-down shorts. There was no weapon present. He was attempting to comply with contradictory, unnecessary orders.
     

    CPT Nervous

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    There is something fundamentally broken in your head and in your soul if you can watch that video and conclude gunning him down on his knees with a rifle after screaming contradictory orders was justified.

    He had him AT RIFLE POINT. There was no cause to shoot him for his hand drifting toward his falling-down shorts. There was no weapon present. He was attempting to comply with contradictory, unnecessary orders.

    We know there was no weapon present now. That information was not known by any of the responding officers. Look at the Castile shooting. If they tell you to stop reaching, you should go ahead and stop reaching. The officer doesn't know that you're pulling your pants up or reaching for your wallet.

    If you have a rifle pointed at you, all the more reason to not reach for anything.
     

    ATM

    will argue for sammiches.
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    Jul 29, 2008
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    I think most would agree that simple non-compliance would likely have saved Shaver's life whereas his failed attempts at complying somehow turned this into a "good shoot" for fired/rehired/retired officer Brailsford.

    Simply laying down and refusing to move at all might have got him roughed up but probably not silly gamed to death as the video showed.

    We all know the prize for playing silly games.
     
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