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  1. #1
    Expert fullmetaljesus's Avatar

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    Question regarding "mah rights"

    Just watched a video on youtube.

    A person was opening carrying in a walmart, a group of officers show up to seek ID and carry license.


    Now, as far as i know, if asked for ID in indiana we must give id. and naturally same with carry lic.

    These officers then run a check on his id, presumably to see if any warrants and such...

    Please correct me if im wrong here. Isn't that a slight on his 4th amendment right? He showed proof he is licensed to carry. therefore no crime has been committed. I thought providing ID was simply I am who i state I am, not consent to run a records check.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCTezGsbjjM



    **Edit**

    i suppose they need to run it to ensure its a valid carry lic etc..... i guess im just dumb or short sighted
    Last edited by fullmetaljesus; 01-12-2018 at 14:01.
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  2. #2
    Sharpshooter hpclayto's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by fullmetaljesus View Post
    Just watched a video on youtube.

    A person was opening carrying in a walmart, a group of officers show up to seek ID and carry license.


    Now, as far as i know, if asked for ID in indiana we must give id. and naturally same with carry lic.

    These officers then run a check on his id, presumably to see if any warrants and such...

    Please correct me if im wrong here. Isn't that a slight on his 4th amendment right? He showed proof he is licensed to carry. therefore no crime has been committed. I thought providing ID was simply I am who i state I am, not consent to run a records check.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCTezGsbjjM
    laws are different everywhere. In Indiana you're only required to identify yourself if you've committed an infraction or ordinance violation. Just the act of carrying is not a reason for law enforcement to stop and detain you to verify whether or not you have a carry license nor are you required to inform if you are. Consensual encounters are a whole different story. Not sure how running someone after you've had contact with them is really a 4th amendment issue, never seen or heard of any case law on that. If the initial reason for the stop was unlawful then you get into fruit of the poisonous tree issues but there isn't anything to argue with a warrant (assuming there aren't any fresh charges that stem from the stop) as a judge has already decided there's PC for your arrest.
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  3. #3
    Plinker Dundee's Avatar

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  4. #4
    Expert fullmetaljesus's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by hpclayto View Post
    laws are different everywhere. In Indiana you're only required to identify yourself if you've committed an infraction or ordinance violation. Just the act of carrying is not a reason for law enforcement to stop and detain you to verify whether or not you have a carry license nor are you required to inform if you are. Consensual encounters are a whole different story. Not sure how running someone after you've had contact with them is really a 4th amendment issue, never seen or heard of any case law on that.

    pardon, did i understand you correctly. If im walking through a store or down the street or where ever and an officer approaches me and asks for ID i do not have to hand it over?
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  5. #5
    Plinker

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    I'm not an attorney.
    If you open carry to a certain extent you've waived your fourth amendment. Kind of like people who waive BB guns around should be surprised when they get shot. I'm all for liberty, but not for the abandonment of common sense.
    Also - A police officer just needs to show reasonable cause for stopping. Once they have reasonable cause you must comply with their directive when asked for ID. Any judge would consider open carrying reasonable cause.

  6. #6
    Sharpshooter hpclayto's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by fullmetaljesus View Post
    pardon, did i understand you correctly. If im walking through a store or down the street or where ever and an officer approaches me and asks for ID i do not have to hand it over?
    According to the IC code, yes. Is that always understood and practiced by every LEO/prosecutor? No.

  7. #7
    Grandmaster T.Lex's Avatar

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    Yes. That kind of interaction is now... awkward. The police probably weren't allowed to conduct even a brief investigation. Certainly, once the carry permit was presented, without indication of other criminal activity, the stop should've been over.

    Now, there's a practical problem. The police can take down his information, give the cards back, tell him he's free to go, then follow him as they run the check. If it shows a felony warrant or something, then they can grab him.

    So, holding him there while they run the check isn't really appropriate, but it nets out about the same.
    Resident Warning Shot Statist.

  8. #8
    Expert Joniki's Avatar

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    I am really surprised the LEO's didn't "run his weapon" to see if it was stolen.
    I just don't feel safe in gun free zones...

  9. #9
    Plinker Grump01's Avatar

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    IANĀL. This was from 2014. Wasn't that before the decision about just carrying not being enough cause for a stop and check??
    "An Armed Society is A Polite Society"

  10. #10
    Grandmaster BehindBlueI's's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by fullmetaljesus View Post
    ...not consent to run a records check.
    There is no requirement for consent for a "records check" because you don't own what's being searched (local/state/federal database). There is no expectation of privacy as to if you have a warrant or not.
    L'otters are not afraid.

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