DUTY TO RETREAT...is it an issue?

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  • Amishman44

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    In some states, citizens have a 'duty to retreat' from an active aggressor / threat prior to taking defensive action to protect one's self or a loved one from an aggressive, threatening, and potentially violent agrressor!


    My question is, is this 'duty to retreat' a concern or issue in the ability of one's self to adequately protect one's self or a loved on in the active preservation of life?


    And, at what point does one consider themselves 'unable' to continue to retreat, therefore, giving them the ability to turn and defend/fight their aggressor in an attempt to prevent assault, battery, rape, robbery, or defend against death?


    How do states that require a 'duty to retreat' define that line, legally, of transitioning from 'retreating' to 'now being able to defend one's self or a loved one?'


    Here in Indiana, we have 'Castle Doctrine' which allows an individual to 'stand their ground' against an active aggressor / valid threat and protect one's self, one's home, and one's loved ones from the get-go.


    IMO, the 'Duty to Retreat' issue is a concern because it raises the question of 'how far does one have to retreat'...and does that mean you have to 'retreat' from the active threat and, possibly, leave a loved one behind...and at what point are you allowed to stand in between an active threat and protect a loved one who does not have the ability to physically retreat or retreat successfully, away from the threat?


    And if you're in the process of 'retreating'...are you supposed to 'turn and run' away from an active threat? And, how do you know if you've run out of room to retreat? If you run into a 'box'...and can't find a way out, doesn't that give the aggressor time to close the gap quickly and considerably?


    In my estimation, if I'm not allowed to 'stand-up-to' an aggressor, then space and time are my friend...giving those two items up forces me to do what should have been done in the first place!


    IMO, one should be able to stand up to an active threat / bully, legally and from the onset, interceding quickly, and protecting one's self and those whom you love!


    Curious as to what those from those who live in states who still have a 'duty to retreat' legality in their legal system prior to being able to defend one's self from an active and aggressive threat?


    Thoughts?
     

    GIJEW

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    Practically speaking, I don't think retreating and defending yourself are an "either-or" choice. For instance, if confronted with an imminent threat to life&limb you draw and cover your retreat to cover. Like you said distance and the time that comes with it are our friends.

    But it is a good question about how a DA in NJ would look at that. I can easily imagine a NJ DA being an anti-gun-owner bigot who would make up any excuse to prosecute you--say, "brandishing a weapon while defending yourself"
     

    HoughMade

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    A formal "duty to retreat" is not part of Indiana law. It is however, prudent to consider retreating when possible if it is the safer course of action.
     

    Ark

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    My belief is that you absolutely should remove yourself from a situation whenever possible. Legislating that belief is a different, much more problematic matter.

    Either way, if you're approaching the question from a standpoint of "Can I shoot this person if...", you're doing it wrong.
     

    JettaKnight

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    Curious as to what those from those who live in states who still have a 'duty to retreat' legality in their legal system prior to being able to defend one's self from an active and aggressive threat?Thoughts?

    Yeah... this is Indiana Gun Owners. There's very few members who live outside of Indiana, and even fewer (under 10?) that live in states that require retreat.
     

    russc2542

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    So the idea behind it is that you have to expend other options before resorting to lethal force. Where the line is is "reasonable" and varies in every circumstance.

    As for defending others I would think that if you are defending someone else with less mobility, for example a broken leg, your duty to retreat is coupled with theirs else you'd be legally required to abandon them to the whims of the aggressor.

    Not that laws and sense (common or otherwise) have much to do with law: most of Europe.
     

    Alamo

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    To my knowledge, the states that have a duty to retreat requirement say you have to do so only if you can do so "safely". If trying to exit the scene would increase risk to you or loved one, like you would have to swim across a piranha-infested river or cross a busy interstate or jump out a 3rd story window, or you have a disability that prevents escape, then no, you don't have a safe retreat and you are not required to leave. And, of course, you have to know about that safe avenue of retreat.

    The problem in those states becomes proving that. In self-defense (especially with a gun)-unfriendly jurisdictions, the prosecution may not look kindly on your efforts. Especially if there was a route that was apparent to you only in hindsight. "Tunnel vision" is a thing when you are facing a mortal threat. If there was an alley way you could have run down, but you didn't see it because your senses and brain are overwhelmed by the threat in your face, an unfriendly prosecutor will ignore your reactions and argue that you had an out, therefore you can't claim self-defense. You will have to prove first to the judge, and then (if he agrees) to the jury, that a "reasonable man" would not have seen that alley way given the three thugs in your face. That will require expert witnesses. Ching$Ching$

    Massad Ayoob has a lot on this if you go peruse his writings. He lives in states that are hostile to self-defense claims.



    It's not a point that can be ignored if you ever travel to other states. I believe Ohio has a Castle Doctrine applicable only to house and (maybe) vehicle. But no "stand your ground" law, so I think you have a duty to retreat in all other locations.

    Ok, look here: https://ohiocrimlawblog.com/tag/duty-to-retreat/
     
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    Dead Duck

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    I'd rather be Alive in a courtroom explaining myself [STRIKE]then[/STRIKE] than.......Dead.
    Thinking ahead is great and so is hindsight but when it comes down to it, your actions won't always make everyone happy.

    Doing the right thing isn't always legal.
     
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    JettaKnight

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    I'd rather be Alive in a courtroom explaining myself than.......Dead.
    Thinking ahead is great and so is hindsight but when it comes down to it, your actions won't always make everyone happy.

    Doing the right thing isn't always legal.
    FIFY.

    I really don't think you want to die immediately following your court date.
     

    JettaKnight

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    Oh- Me did do that, didn't me?

    It is my destiny.

    grammarpolice-tn-400x400.jpg
     

    brotherbill3

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    So when does Kirk start following brotherbill3 around?

    Should I be skeered? LOL ...:scared: :shady:

    You have a file on "things I learned from Kirk"?

    It's empty, right?


    The file is in my head - that's why preceded with IIRC.

    I'm "that kid that read the encyclopedia" (quite literally, and remembered (most of) it)

    So ... err what? I guess it might be. :dunno:

    or ... Was my reference wrong?

    APRA might not help ... my brain is a ... sieve err sponge ... something. :whistle:
     
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