Florida school Shooting

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  • Coach

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    Apr 15, 2008
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    It is early in the cycle of this event. But how does a gunman arrive at a school at 2:19 pm, kill 17 people and then get off the campus? He was arrested at 3:41 according to reports. He did the shooting, left the school went to Subway, and then to McDonald's and then was arrested at 3:41. How do the Police not get to the scene and keep him contained?

    Why is there no story about Law Enforcement not being able to bottle up the threat?
     

    MCgrease08

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    There is a very robust thread on this already, but the crux of it is, he stashed the mags and ammo on site in a back pack. Brought the gun in somehow and opened fire on 5 classrooms (reportedly) then at some point dropped the rifle and ran out as part of the panicked crowd.

    Easy to blend in with hundreds of screaming kids exiting in a mass panic.
     

    bwframe

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    The shooter apparently wanted to get caught after successfully escaping the scene. No attempt to change or cover up the clothing he was reported to be wearing during the shooting. Caught walking on a sidewalk in a neighborhood.
     

    Coach

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    As a school teacher every single time Law Enforcement comes to a meeting the message is the same. We will not be forming a perimeter. We will be coming right in and end the shooting. They failed to do that here and in a number of other examples.

    Once the shooting started the gunman should not have been able to escape. But he did.

    Mental health fail in preventing this and getting the man the help he needed. Law Enforcement fail in that the shooter was able to escape.
     

    KittySlayer

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    When seconds matter the police are only minutes away.

    I carry so I can provide for the safety of my loved ones and myself when (if) the situation requires.

    Sadly there are so many mixed priorities in our education system that safety does not get the attention it should. Should be 1) safe environment, 2) academic education. Instead we mix in food service, sex education, religion (or lack thereof), daycare, parenting, political indoctrination, discipline, sports, being PC, social, feelings...
     

    Coach

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    Could be seeing the next evolution of school shooting. Do the crime and make an escape. Seeing the same old problem that LE cannot do anything about these shootings except clean up afterward.

    Police on campus but yet they cannot do anything in the time he is firing a weapon.
     

    hpclayto

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    Unless you're gonna put a cop in every room of the school there are going to be casualties. It doesn't take long to kill 17 people. I'm surprised the numbers aren't higher when these things happen. The bigger issue is how was a non current student able to gain access to the school and get firearms inside. There's your big problem, other than having a lunatic that wants to kill people of course.
     

    churchmouse

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    Dec 7, 2011
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    Unless you're gonna put a cop in every room of the school there are going to be casualties. It doesn't take long to kill 17 people. I'm surprised the numbers aren't higher when these things happen. The bigger issue is how was a non current student able to gain access to the school and get firearms inside. There's your big problem, other than having a lunatic that wants to kill people of course.

    My 11 year old G-daughters school is secure. You have to buzz in to gain access. Possibly shooting out the glass on the doors but not just walking in.
     

    Tanfodude

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    Jul 25, 2012
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    Locked all other entrances and secure the main entrance with a trained armed guard, have another roving guard or 2 around campus, what else if this is not enough?
     

    eldirector

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    Apr 29, 2009
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    Locked all other entrances and secure the main entrance with a trained armed guard, have another roving guard or 2 around campus, what else if this is not enough?
    130,000 schools in the US * 3 hired guards making, what , $30k / year (from salary.com for security guards). That's just for one shift. Do we need them on-duty for evenings and weekends? Who provides security for choir practice? Ball games? Is that salary competitive on the coasts? What about training costs? Equipment costs?

    $11,700,000,000, and that is on the very, very low side.

    Better start voting for those school ballot initiatives! Only an additional $92 for each and every household in the US (assuming each household actually pays some sort of tax).
     

    eldirector

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    But some of this should be in place already. While your number is a good guess at a total, it is not all new money. A chunk should already be budgeted for and being spent.
    On what?

    Avon is already asking for another $9M just to keep the doors open. I doubt they would claim to have an extra few hundred thousand sitting unused.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Yes because active shooter scenes are so calm and collective.

    This.

    I've actually had FoF training that was pretty on par with what happened, fire alarm going off, smoke in the building, and over a hundred people (role-players) screaming and running, begging for help for the injured and dead, etc. Even in a simulation, the sensory input is overwhelming and the opportunities for a gunman to pretend to be just another victim and neither responders or victims to realize it are frequent. The school we used was huge, at least by the way I reckon things, but shots echo around and it's tough to tell where they are coming from, your brain cannot process all the info your senses are feeding it...it's not what people imagine it to be in the confines of "Well, I'd just..."
     

    Denny347

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    21   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
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    It is early in the cycle of this event. But how does a gunman arrive at a school at 2:19 pm, kill 17 people and then get off the campus? He was arrested at 3:41 according to reports. He did the shooting, left the school went to Subway, and then to McDonald's and then was arrested at 3:41. How do the Police not get to the scene and keep him contained?

    Why is there no story about Law Enforcement not being able to bottle up the threat?

    As a school teacher every single time Law Enforcement comes to a meeting the message is the same. We will not be forming a perimeter. We will be coming right in and end the shooting. They failed to do that here and in a number of other examples.

    Once the shooting started the gunman should not have been able to escape. But he did.

    Mental health fail in preventing this and getting the man the help he needed. Law Enforcement fail in that the shooter was able to escape.


    There is WAAAAAAY too few details regarding the response in order to start accusing the PD of not doing their jobs correctly. We were doing a tabletop exercise yesterday regarding a similar situation at a large high school. It is a clusterf**k from go. There are no easy option.
     

    Frank_N_Stein

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    79   0   0
    Nov 24, 2008
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    There is WAAAAAAY too few details regarding the response in order to start accusing the PD of not doing their jobs correctly. We were doing a tabletop exercise yesterday regarding a similar situation at a large high school. It is a clusterf**k from go. There are no easy option.

    Whatever dude, stop trying to make excuses. The police are to blame, no matter what. The sooner you realize that, the sooner the know-it-alls can get back to placing blame.
     
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