Effective Carry Ammo

[Brad69]

Just dropping this here.
I fully understand that research in this area is not all inclusive and that handguns are poor manstoppers.
It is interesting for a rainy afternoon reading.

25 ACP Stopping Power

 

[cedartop]

Just dropping this here.
I fully understand that research in this area is not all inclusive and that handguns are poor manstoppers.
It is interesting for a rainy afternoon reading.

25 ACP Stopping Power

I wonder how they compiled that data. I worked a shooting with a .25 before. It was a one shot stop, sorta. Two people inside a tiny bedroom emptied their guns at each other. He missed her completely, she hit him with one round from the .25. We found him laying in the snow outside the house, passed out drunk, bleeding a bit.

 

[rugertoter]

The .25 ACP is a beast of a round, no doubt. Seriously though, even though I would not want to be hit by a BB, I'm sure the .25 Auto would hurt more.

 

[Brad69]

The data is kinda on the old side as we all know any good modern defense ammo 9mm/.38 Special and larger will do a good job based on shot placement.
I wanna know what’s a one shot stop?
If you hit them in the wrist and they run off and bleed out does that count?

 

[cedartop]

I wanna know what’s a one shot stop?
If you hit them in the wrist and they run off and bleed out does that count?

I probably didn't do a good job of explaining myself. That is exactly what I meant.

 

[ECS686]

The data is kinda on the old side as we all know any good modern defense ammo 9mm/.38 Special and larger will do a good job based on shot placement.
I wanna know what’s a one shot stop?
If you hit them in the wrist and they run off and bleed out does that count?

I believe when Evan Marshal and Ed Sanow did their Handgun Stopping Power book (I'm showing my age) they factored in cases even when the perp lived. If it stopped the action then I'd agree (that study is what gave the 357 mag 125 SJHP it's crown)

 

[AngryRooster]

I believe when Evan Marshal and Ed Sanow did their Handgun Stopping Power book (I'm showing my age) they factored in cases even when the perp lived. If it stopped the action then I'd agree (that study is what gave the 357 mag 125 SJHP it's crown)

Correct. IIRC they defined 'one shot stop' as one round fired, center mass hit, perp immediately (or within 2 seconds) ceased all hostile activity and fell within 10 feet if they tried to flee.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Not even a reliable suicide gun.

 

[rhino]

All data taken from Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow's book: Stopping Power: A Practical Analysis of the Latest Handgun Ammunition and used with permission from the author.

Everything in that book ranges from nonsense to crap. Anything based on it is nonsense or crap.

 

[Brad69]

Yep wouldn’t put any real faith in the study and ammo evolution is constant so many of the loads and calibers are rarely used plus many find faults in the research.
I think the FBI test and input from BBI and others with “real world” experience are the best way to make a informed decision on good carry ammo.

 

[jamil]

The .25 ACP is a beast of a round, no doubt. Seriously though, even though I would not want to be hit by a BB, I'm sure the .25 Auto would hurt more.

There was a case in Louisville where a woman defended herself with 25 ACP. Shot the attacker in the ass. Caused him to run away, so it was effective enough. Is it effective enough in many situations? I dunno. It caused the purp to limpnenough that someone realized something was wrong with him. He admitted then that he was shot, cops were involved at some point, and he went to jail. Well. Not with the 25ACP still in his ass.

 

[CPT Nervous]

Don't ever shoot somebody with a .25.

If they find out that you shot them, they're going to be pissed.

 

[ECS686]

Everything in that book ranges from nonsense to crap. Anything based on it is nonsense or crap.

While some % can be off (example the 44 mag rated lower than the 357 however there was more shootings with 357 to use as it was a very popular LE caliber at the time) my point is while it night be outdated bow at the time it was pretty spot on when one thinks of the old days and revolvers.

And sorry but being a Revolver guy this never gets old

 

[rhino]

While some % can be off (example the 44 mag rated lower than the 357 however there was more shootings with 357 to use as it was a very popular LE caliber at the time) my point is while it night be outdated bow at the time it was pretty spot on when one thinks of the old days and revolvers.

And sorry but being a Revolver guy this never gets old

View attachment 65278

I was referring to the fact that his hypotheses were not reflective of why those "one shot stops" occurred and his command of statistical analysis was amateurish at best. While you may have derived useful information from the book, the conclusions he drew were crap.

 

[Bigtanker]

I remember buying that book as a middle aged teenager and studying it for hours. I think I just pitched it a few years ago under the premise of "that is outdated technology now" or something lime that.

 

[Skullglide]

One of the writers lives about 15 miles from me. Shot placement is key. Not a huge fan of the content of that book.

 

[rhino]

One of the writers lives about 15 miles from me. Shot placement is key. Not a huge fan of the content of that book.

Yeah, we know about him.

 

[SchwansManDan]

My wife & I took her grandfather's old .25 Beretta to a gunsmith a few years ago to have it checked out before we tried firing it. (Grandpa had been dead for about 30 years, and we were pretty sure the gun had not been fired since before he passed.)

A guy sitting off to the side in the shop said "You should file down the front sight on that thing. If you ever shoot someone with it, they're gonna stick it up your ***. It will hurt less when you remove it if there's no front sight."

 

[CPT Nervous]

My wife & I took her grandfather's old .25 Beretta to a gunsmith a few years ago to have it checked out before we tried firing it. (Grandpa had been dead for about 30 years, and we were pretty sure the gun had not been fired since before he passed.)

A guy sitting off to the side in the shop said "You should file down the front sight on that thing. If you ever shoot someone with it, they're gonna stick it up your ***. It will hurt less when you remove it if there's no front sight."

Solid advice.