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  1. #171
    Somewhat Purple-ish rhino's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    I disagree. You don't control the ultimate outcome, you only control your own actions. Let's say you and I are ignorant jackwads and we set up some tin cans on a fence post to shoot at and don't notice the camp site out in the field. We both take a shot. There's a bullet in a car door and a bullet in someone's leg. Different charges? Or same?
    Consequences, not charges.



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  2. #172
    Grandmaster BehindBlueI's's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhino View Post
    Consequences, not charges.
    Ok. So what consequences are we discussing? Civil court, it will be different.
    L'otters are not afraid.

  3. #173
    Grandmaster Coach's Avatar

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    [QUOTE=BehindBlueI's;7588233]I disagree. You don't control the ultimate outcome, you only control your own actions. Let's say you and I are ignorant jackwads and we set up some tin cans on a fence post to shoot at and don't notice the camp site out in the field. We both take a shot. There's a bullet in a car door and a bullet in someone's leg. Different charges? Or same?



    Why a hypothetical instance here? An FBI agent dropped his gun. By itself not big deal. He/She should be able to pick it up and reholster without shooting someone. An FBI agent doing a back flip on the dance floor and dropping his gun is a bigger bone head mistake. Should not happen. Professional is the reason why. Higher standard and higher expectations than John Q Public.

    How can anyone have confidence in this guy in the future? Not talking about criminal charges but getting fired. That should happen.
    No one is stronger or more dangerous than the man who can harness his emotions.

    www.BrightFirearmsTraining.com

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  4. #174
    Grandmaster BehindBlueI's's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach View Post
    Why a hypothetical instance here?
    I've addressed the actual incident multiple times earlier in the thread, and the hypothetical was strictly to address Rhino's statement about outcomes affecting consequences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coach View Post
    How can anyone have confidence in this guy in the future? Not talking about criminal charges but getting fired. That should happen.
    As far as firing, already addressed. Confidence? If the guy is not otherwise a goof and learned from this, I've no issue with him any more than I have an issue with Massad Ayoob for having an ND when he should, and does, know better or someone who caused a traffic crash that broke someone's leg. I don't expect anyone, from my doctor to my co-workers, to be infallible. If this is just the most recent in a string of bad decisions, then that's a different issue. Folks I've talked to with the same badge as him seem to think he won't keep his job, though.
    L'otters are not afraid.

  5. #175
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    I find it unacceptable that any FBI agent cannot pick up a dropped gun without it going off and shooting someone. Don't need any other reason for him to have to find another line of work. Should not take much thought or investigation for that to happen. I don't want this guy around my family doing his job. Him keeping his job raises serious questions about the FBI.

    Reminds of the statement from Jeff Cooper. Something along the lines of, show me a police department without bullet holes in it and I will show you a building that has not been dedicated.

    Accepting the ND/AD thing as something that can happen allows it to keep happening. The four or five rounds that have been fired in the showroom at Point Blank in Carmel should not happen either. The word does not seem to get out or be a problem for them.

    A few summers ago I had my daughter at the Area 5 shooting camp in Ohio. One of the dad's was talking to a Grand Master that was teaching at the camp. The dad was talking about ND that he recently had in practice. He said something like, if you shoot enough that is going to happen once in a while. The GM stopped him cold, and said no that is not right. You handle the gun right and it does not happen. I have shot for 25 years and it has not happened. I think this is more of the attitude that we all need to foster.
    No one is stronger or more dangerous than the man who can harness his emotions.

    www.BrightFirearmsTraining.com

    abright@ccrtc.com


  6. #176
    Sharpshooter

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue falcon View Post
    The ones I looked at on theit site have no retention at all.
    I'm guessing they don't make a "Professional" model for whatever model you looked for, but here are examples for the P365 (they make a number of others): https://n82tactical.com/product/professional-sig-p365/ and https://n82tactical.com/product/pro-tandem-sig-p365/

    Unless I'm misinterpreting SOB holster and it isn't intended to be IWB.

  7. #177
    Le mot juste blue falcon's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyTom View Post
    I'm guessing they don't make a "Professional" model for whatever model you looked for, but here are examples for the P365 (they make a number of others): https://n82tactical.com/product/professional-sig-p365/ and https://n82tactical.com/product/pro-tandem-sig-p365/

    Unless I'm misinterpreting SOB holster and it isn't intended to be IWB.
    Those do seem to have positive retention. Tucked Small of Back they would be very difficult to draw, at least for me.
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  8. #178
    Grandmaster Coach's Avatar

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    This was not a hardware problem. It was a software problem.
    No one is stronger or more dangerous than the man who can harness his emotions.

    www.BrightFirearmsTraining.com

    abright@ccrtc.com


  9. #179
    Sharpshooter

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue falcon View Post
    Those do seem to have positive retention. Tucked Small of Back they would be very difficult to draw, at least for me.
    Just takes a little practice to get the twist down. Drive thumb in, press palm towards body/grasp and pull.

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