Test your carry load! - or, alternate title, Revolvers DO jam!

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  • wesnellans

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    Here’s why you test your carry load. Firing one handed this morning to test a different grip for recoil control. A light magnum load that is normally not a big deal. After the fourth shot the cylinder wouldn’t advance. Never had a factory load jump crimp before, but I did this morning! Bullet moved out far enough during recoil that the tip protruded from the cylinder and jammed the movement at the forcing cone.


    Methinks I’ll carry lighter (and shorter overall length) 38s in it :)

    https://imgur.com/gallery/5YZa4kl
     

    possum_128

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    Are you sure it was a crimp jump and not a round that the factory did not get seated in all the way? I ask because I had the same trouble years ago with a Remington box of fmj. Loaded the Smith up for some range fun and did not noticed that one round was a bit longer and it locked up after 2 rounds fired. Checked the box and found one more round in the box that was not seated all the way.
     

    wesnellans

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    Are you sure it was a crimp jump and not a round that the factory did not get seated in all the way? I ask because I had the same trouble years ago with a Remington box of fmj. Loaded the Smith up for some range fun and did not noticed that one round was a bit longer and it locked up after 2 rounds fired. Checked the box and found one more round in the box that was not seated all the way.

    Bullet was protruding approx 1/8” away from the cannelure in the casing and loose enough to remove by hand without a puller. Pretty sure.

    That, and my habit of slightly pulling hammer back and testing cylinder rotation after loading :)

    Point still valid nonetheless.
     
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    VERT

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    Yep I have seen .357 Mag jump a crimp more then once in a snub. It is even more problematic in an air weight. But I have seen an all steel Taurus do this as well. My recommendation for snubs is to stick with a good quality .38 +P. The brass will extract easier and faster as well.
     

    wesnellans

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    Yep I have seen .357 Mag jump a crimp more then once in a snub. It is even more problematic in an air weight. But I have seen an all steel Taurus do this as well. My recommendation for snubs is to stick with a good quality .38 +P. The brass will extract easier and faster as well.

    Light weight and one handed (which is what caused the load to fail that never had before two handed, I’m sure) are indeed the culprits in my mind. LCR 357, while being 17 ounces compared to those masochistic scandium Smiths, still doesn’t offer a whole lot of inertial resistance to even a 110 gr 357 touching off.

    Never remember an issue with even old school 158s back in the day with my old 2-1/2” Smith 66. Weight is your friend during firing, to be sure.

    38s from now on after proving that issue to myself.
     

    VERT

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    The advantage of a .357 snub is 1) you can fire .357 in a pinch 2) the extractor could/should be longer. 3) the guns are a bit heavier and more robust. Otherwise I see little advantage and some disadvantage to loading it up with magnums.

    My snub is a .38. They 1) cost less. 2) bit smaller
     

    wesnellans

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    The advantage of a .357 snub is 1) you can fire .357 in a pinch 2) the extractor could/should be longer. 3) the guns are a bit heavier and more robust. Otherwise I see little advantage and some disadvantage to loading it up with magnums.

    My snub is a .38. They 1) cost less. 2) bit smaller

    Agreed on the extra weight and robustness. Fun fact that is contrary to the size statement in most snubs: they’re the same size (including extractor length) as the 38 versions. Smith USED to make their 38s smaller, before the advent of the “J magnum” chassis, where they consolidated all frames and cylinder outside dimensions to accommodate the longer 357 round. The LCR snubs have all been of the same dimensions, to my knowledge.

    I miss my (stupidly sold/traded) pre-magnum era model 60.... that extra bit of “smallness” was noticeable.
     

    Drail

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    Bullets pulling out of the case is NOT a revolver problem - it is an ammo problem. Run cheap junk ammo in any type of gun and it will cause problems. The reason your bullet pulled forward and tied up your gun has nothing to do with the crimp - it pulled because of insufficient case neck tension. Factory ammo today is all junk that is made to do only one thing - to sell. They don't care if it works - it only has to sell. Think about that for a moment. Ask ANY of the ammo manufacturers if they will warrant their ammo not to set back or pull and see what they say. They won't even guarantee it to fire. I kid you not. If you want good reliable ammo than you have to make your own. I have been reloading for 30 years and none of my rounds have EVER set back or had bullets pull out of the case. I would never stake my life on a factory round. I have seen big name factory ammo with primers inserted backwards or sideways or cases that had NO primer flash hole in them and rounds with no powder. You cannot trust these people when your life is on the line. They couldn't care less.
     
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    wesnellans

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    Bullets pulling out of the case is NOT a revolver problem - it is an ammo problem.

    Didn't really say it was a revolver problem. It was exacerbated by the load in question being a magnum level load in a lightweight revolver, but the issue was assuredly a failure of ammo.

    The old Boberg (and whatever it’s called now with the new owners) has the same problem in the way cartridges are stripped from the mag (being pulled BACKWARDS out of the mag with the slide under recoil, similar to what happens in a revolver during recoil, that being the inertia of the bullet resisting movement as the case is yanked backwards. Plenty of documented cases of issues with bullets and powder being dumped into the mag and the casing along making the trip backwards with the slide with cheaper ammo. Boberg even documents the phenomenon in the owners manual, IIRC. I know they mention crimp as being the issue on the page listing compatible ammo on their site.

    From my understanding it’s a not-uncommon occurrence with the 9mm LCR, as well.

    Laws of physics and all that mysticism... :)
     
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    wesnellans

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    If weight is considered a dimension, there's a 3.6 oz difference between LCRs in .38 and .357. Otherwise I believe they are same-same.

    Perhaps I should have said “same size”. I specifically avoid the LCR 38 due to its weight, or lack thereof. Wifey had an LCR 357 at one point that she always fired 38s in and loved it. Decided to get one with an external hammer, back before the LCRX was offered in anything other than 38.

    Let’s just say that gun didn’t stay with us for very long. Angry little sucker to fire in comparison.
     

    Route 45

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    If you want good reliable ammo than you have to make your own. I have been reloading for 30 years and none of my rounds have EVER set back or had bullets pull out of the case. I would never stake my life on a factory round. I have seen big name factory ammo with primers inserted backwards or sideways or cases that had NO primer flash hole in them and rounds with no powder. You cannot trust these people when your life is on the line. They couldn't care less.

    :rolleyes:

    This is going to cost billions, as every military unit and every LE agency in the nation will have to start their own in-house ammunition reloading departments/units, so that this plague of officers and troops dying from faulty factory ammunition will stop.
     

    VERT

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    Perhaps I should have said “same size”. I specifically avoid the LCR 38 due to its weight, or lack thereof. Wifey had an LCR 357 at one point that she always fired 38s in and loved it. Decided to get one with an external hammer, back before the LCRX was offered in anything other than 38.

    Let’s just say that gun didn’t stay with us for very long. Angry little sucker to fire in comparison.

    It amazes me how 3 oz more weight can make a difference. But in a 10 - 15 oz gun that is a considerable increase in mass.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    :rolleyes:

    This is going to cost billions, as every military unit and every LE agency in the nation will have to start their own in-house ammunition reloading departments/units, so that this plague of officers and troops dying from faulty factory ammunition will stop.

    I'd conservatively estimate we go through at least 640k+ rounds of handgun ammo per year at our range (1600-ish people shooting 200-ish rounds per in-service twice a year). Whatever issues exist with our factory ammo from a quality brand seem to be waaaay less than one in a million chance. Buy crap, get crap. Buy quality, get quality.
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    It is well to consider the inverse problem as well, the high primer.

    This is why I prefer the M38/638 for roll checking. Never liked roll checking on the hammer alone. I know things like the 640 are popular in gun shops but these guys aren't roll checking their ammo.

    Testing carry ammo, good advice. Just ensure that you are doing a complete check and not phoning it in.
     

    Dean C.

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    NNUA2IXh.jpg


    Never had a Speed Gold Dot jump the crimp on me in my 360PD (the lightest smallest 357 mag ever made I think) but then again this ammo was designed from the ground up for snubbies.
     
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