At what point is pepper spray justified?

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  • Cameramonkey

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    Personally, I use the same metric more or less for my pistol; If I can articulate a fear for severe personal injury it comes out. Somebody in my personal space being overly aggressive and refusing to step back yes, standing at a distance yelling general obscenities no. I'll do my best to avoid the fight first, pepper spray second, and the pistol (or knife) as an absolute last resort.

    it wouldnt have come out in that video. My window wouldnt have been down either.

    But a drive by with a can of bear spray would have been mighty entertaining. LOL
     

    Cameramonkey

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    As an aside, I found it ironic that there were white men standing in the street screaming at other white men (drivers) for being white. LOLWUT?
     

    eldirector

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    Meh, just drive around them.

    I've had all kinds of random folks (panhandlers, drunks, druggies, mentally-ill, etc...) try to block lanes of traffic, just in Indy. I go around them. Why stop to engage them in ANY way? They are at best annoying. At worst, one half-step away from violent.

    Now, why the cops didn't hose them down, hit them with the tazer, and roast marshmallows in the resulting fire is beyond me. I'd get a ticket for jaywalking if I set so much as a FOOT off of the curb, and these yahoos act like a bunch of 'tards and no one cares.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Meh, just drive around them.

    I've had all kinds of random folks (panhandlers, drunks, druggies, mentally-ill, etc...) try to block lanes of traffic, just in Indy. I go around them. Why stop to engage them in ANY way? They are at best annoying. At worst, one half-step away from violent.

    Now, why the cops didn't hose them down, hit them with the tazer, and roast marshmallows in the resulting fire is beyond me. I'd get a ticket for jaywalking if I set so much as a FOOT off of the curb, and these yahoos act like a bunch of 'tards and no one cares.


    Apparently the cops' response when asked was "Sometimes it is better to let them get bored and go home when they arent hurting anyone. Police presence/enforcement can escalate these things into violence, so that is why we had our officers stand back and observe." (paraphrased) what a load of :poop:
     

    Drail

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    Because for the most part - no one cares....... I wouldn't place ANY faith at all in pepper spray. I have seen guys sprayed with it and just laugh. It might work but you don't want to bet on it. It also just might blow back in your face if you happen to be downwind.
     

    K_W

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    I was just considering the same thing. With the rise in violence against drivers by political rioters, I'm considering carrying pepper spray in my car to spray out the sunroof if ever surrounded by agitators. I hate that I've even had to ponder the thought.

    Under Indiana stand-your-ground laws if rioters are surrounding and beating on my occupied motor vehicle I am permitted to use reasonable force, I believe pepper spray is minimal yet effective reasonable force.
     
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    Cameramonkey

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    I was just considering the same thing. With the rise in violence against drivers by political rioters, I'm considering carrying pepper spray in my car to spray out the sunroof if ever surrounded by agitators. I hate that I've even had to ponder the thought.

    Under Indiana stand-your-ground laws if rioters are surrounding and beating on my occupied motor vehicle I am permitted to use reasonable force, I believe pepper spray is minimal yet effective reasonable force.

    But without a direct hit, you're probably going to just **** the crowd off. And those upwind are gonna get pissed you hurt their buddies downrange. I saw a video a while back where one of the group got a snootful, and as soon as it was obvious he was down and incapacitated, the rest of the group increased their anger and proceeded to work harder to attack the defender. ("why'd you have to do that for? Now we have to get back at you for hurting our friend. " etc) So if you use it on a group, remember your 1st grade teacher's advice; make sure you brought enough to share with everyone.:):

    If it were me, I'd skip the pepper spray for that one and just work at pushing through the crowd carefully. :twocents:
     

    IndyTom

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    If I should end up in one of these cities that is allowing this nonsense, I hope I'm in a rental with the extra insurance coverage. I'm going where my GPS tells me, not into some potential trap where some freak is directing me.
     

    rhino

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    Sounds like the market for taser suit has finally emerged.

    A suit built with tasers pointing outward (perhaps without the projectiles). If no one tries to touch you, no problem. If they get close enough to touch, they feel the sting of the drive mode from the taser.
     

    bwframe

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    I think it helpful to have all the tools available and training in their use. If you are gonna carry pepper spray, you should have training in it's use, including being sprayed yourself. :twocents:

    The same as with every other defense tool, you go out of your way NOT to use it. Keep in mind that the officials involved in the after of your pepper spray use may NOT agree that it was the best way to go. What will an assault conviction do to your proper person status for your LTCH???
     

    CampingJosh

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    If you are gonna carry pepper spray, you should have training in it's use, including being sprayed yourself. :twocents:

    I've heard this opinion numerous times in regards to pepper spray and tasers, but we all seem to be fine carrying pistols without any expectation that we've experienced the effects.

    I guess I'm not sure what the point would be.
     

    bwframe

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    I've heard this opinion numerous times in regards to pepper spray and tasers, but we all seem to be fine carrying pistols without any expectation that we've experienced the effects...

    Not all of us. There are a fair chunk of folks that have "been shot," "been incapacitated," "been killed" numerous times in FOF training. It's how you learn what you can do and what doesn't work.

    Something that isn't common knowledge, except to those who have trained with pepper spray;
    You are more likely than not to end up with pepper spray in your own face also when using it. How do you deal with that? How long do you have before you are effectively blind also? How do you fight while effectively blind? ;)
     
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    cosermann

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    From a force continuum perspective, pepper spray usually seems to fall somewhere between soft hands techniques, and hard hands/impact weapons.

    Some think of it as a the equivalent of a chemical eye poke.

    In any event, I'd like to hear a definitive answer vis-a-vis Indiana law on justification for use.
     
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    Denny347

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    From a force continuum perspective, pepper spray usually seems to fall somewhere between soft hands techniques, and hard hands/impact weapons.

    Some think of it as a the equivalent of a chemical eye poke.

    In any event, I'd like to hear a definitive answer vis-a-vis Indiana law on justification for use.
    Don't rely on the WAY outdated Continuum to judge force and I'm not sure there is a definitive answer for OC use in Indiana.
     
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