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  1. #121
    Le mot juste 2A_Tom's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by chipbennett View Post
    Data don't back up this assertion.
    You are absolutely correct.

    But, they are hammered day in and day out that it is true. Many do not believe it, but an awful lot do.
    The member formerly known as blue falcon.
    To avoid misunderstandings.



  2. #122
    Le mot juste 2A_Tom's Avatar

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    I do not know if the INGO LEO will agree with this. I mean no disrespect to you.

    I think one take away on this situation could be...

    In a high stress situation like this, one officer needs to take total control and tell all of the others to keep quiet and say nothing. We always want to put in our two cents, it is normal, but is critical it needs to be one on one.


    In a negotiation situation, the call in one experienced person and no one else speaks. I realize this is not a normal negotiation situation and that the officers were not giving contradictory orders. Still the the incessant fever pitch of the orders seemed very stressful to me.

    As I posted earlier, this has changed/sharpened my mindset if I am ever in a similar situation.
    The member formerly known as blue falcon.
    To avoid misunderstandings.



  3. #123
    Master Lex Concord's Avatar

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    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Benjamin Franklin
    Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tench Coxe
    Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American ... the unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.
    Quote Originally Posted by William Blakstone
    It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer.

  4. #124
    Silencers Have NEVER Been Illegal !
    VUPDblue's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue falcon View Post
    I do not know if the INGO LEO will agree with this. I mean no disrespect to you.

    I think one take away on this situation could be...

    In a high stress situation like this, one officer needs to take total control and tell all of the others to keep quiet and say nothing. We always want to put in our two cents, it is normal, but is critical it needs to be one on one.


    In a negotiation situation, the call in one experienced person and no one else speaks. I realize this is not a normal negotiation situation and that the officers were not giving contradictory orders. Still the the incessant fever pitch of the orders seemed very stressful to me.

    As I posted earlier, this has changed/sharpened my mindset if I am ever in a similar situation.

    I donít know about that jurisdiction, but around here that is exactly how we train. I was recently in a pursuit that involved at least 5 agencies other than mine. At the termination point the teamwork and singular voice commands impressed me more than I have been in a very long time.
    VUPDblue's Rule #1: Don't be a jerk.

    Marion County Fish and Game.Central Indiana's best shooting
    sports facility!



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  5. #125
    Grandmaster Denny347's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue falcon View Post
    I do not know if the INGO LEO will agree with this. I mean no disrespect to you.

    I think one take away on this situation could be...

    In a high stress situation like this, one officer needs to take total control and tell all of the others to keep quiet and say nothing. We always want to put in our two cents, it is normal, but is critical it needs to be one on one.


    In a negotiation situation, the call in one experienced person and no one else speaks. I realize this is not a normal negotiation situation and that the officers were not giving contradictory orders. Still the the incessant fever pitch of the orders seemed very stressful to me.

    As I posted earlier, this has changed/sharpened my mindset if I am ever in a similar situation.
    100% correct.
    On the other side of fear lies freedom.

  6. #126
    Grandmaster chipbennett's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by A 7.62 Exodus View Post
    Easy. The gun in clearly in his waistband when they were yelling at him to "drop the gun." It's sort of hard to drop something you're not holding. Instead of shouting at him like a bunch of cavemen when he's not even holding the firearm, someone needs to say "Sir, put your hands on the top of the vehicle. Then slowly reach into your waistband, grab the end of your weapon, and slowly place in on the ground."
    So, we're going with the position that the officers should have used their 20:20 slow-motion body-cam video to know where the gun "clearly" was at the time of the incident, huh? Or, on what basis do you claim that to the officers at the time of the incident the gun was clearly in the waistband?

  7. #127
    Grandmaster chipbennett's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by LP1 View Post
    False. Although in large numbers, complying might work (and as a clean-cut white male, that would be my course of action), there have been enough well-publicized situations that it's perfectly reasonable for a black person to fear interacting with the police. I wish I knew the answer, but expecting people who've had a much different cultural experience to see the world through our eyes is unreasonable.
    No, not false. The plural of "anecdote" is not "data." Despite the specious claims of BLM, a black person is in no particular danger of facing unjustified use of deadly force by a police officer. I know the data. I have read the data. Have you? (Hint: the FBI UCR is a great place to start, as is Google.)

  8. #128
    Grandmaster actaeon277's Avatar

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    I always precede my disarming by stating, "Excuse me as I whip this out".
    "Una salus victis nullam sperare salutem."

    "A citizen may not be required to offer a 'good and substantial reason' why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The rights existence is all the reason he needs." Benson Everett Legg - Woolard v. Sheridan

    If you're a noob, develop thick skin, and read the FAQs

    Actaeon - act'-tee-on
    The death of Actaeon - http://www.paleothea.com/Myths/Actaeon.html


  9. #129
    Plinker epeery's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by chipbennett View Post
    So, we're going with the position that the officers should have used their 20:20 slow-motion body-cam video to know where the gun "clearly" was at the time of the incident, huh? Or, on what basis do you claim that to the officers at the time of the incident the gun was clearly in the waistband?
    From the video, it looks like the fact is the gun was in a pocket or waistband. It also looks like the officer assumed it was in his hand as soon as she stepped out of her car and started yelling to drop it (before she could even see the suspect, let alone a weapon). That combination led to her yelling a command that amounts to "reach for your gun".

    It seems to me that in THIS case, the critical failure that lead to the shot was her assumption and associated handling of the situation.

    Not to say that there wasn't considerable fail on the part of the suspect also. I think he could have behaved in a way that would have let him end the day breathing, even after the bad interaction with the officers started.
    "IF YOU CAN'T FIX IT WITH A HAMMER, YOU'VE GOT AN ELECTRICAL PROBLEM"

  10. #130
    Le mot juste 2A_Tom's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by actaeon277 View Post
    I always precede my disarming by stating, "Excuse me as I whip this out".


    The member formerly known as blue falcon.
    To avoid misunderstandings.



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