50 yard CCW shooting.

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  • DadSmith

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    bwframe ask a great question in his thread. Can you successful engage a bad guy at 50 yards?

    That got me thinking. I'm going to try just that and post my 1st target I shoot at. And will post as I practice and hopefully progress to get better.

    I would love any criticism that would be helpful to improve.

    While I'm at it I would love for you guys who want to do this post your targets from 50 yards with your ccw weapon or weapons.

    I'm going to try and start tomorrow fingers crossed. :draw:
     

    Tanfodude

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    This should be incorported in a match like carry gun match by Coach, not just static shooting with 1 or 2 targets like a bulleye shooting. Knowing where your POA and POI on your carry gun helps.
     

    04FXSTS

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    IDPA now has a rule that shots may be up to 50 yards for some courses of fire and Atlanta Conservation Club has a 50 yard bay. They have shot at about 45 yards and that is a long way looking over handgun sights. Lot of points down but still not as bad as I had thought it would be. For me at 50 yards with no bystanders near the shooter, I would engage. Hopefully the shooter would follow a pattern of surrender or suicide as soon as they are fired upon. Jim.
     

    nakinate

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    I posted this in bwframe’s original post. It was my first time doing it and I loved it. It improved my speed and accuracy at 25 yards and in. I’ll be doing 50 yard shots from a cold start the next time out. We’ll see if the results change at all.

    I went to the range this morning and worked on accuracy at distance. I had never shot at 50 yards before so I started there. I did 5 rounds at a time.

    The first 5 rounds were high left. I realized I was holding too high and not focusing on my support hand grip enough. My second group of 5 was better with 4/5 hitting the silhouette.


    Here’s my 3rd group. 4/5 on target:
    ksZnzd9l.jpg


    Here’s my 4th group. 4/5 in the 8 inch circle, all on target:
    o0G4Kpil.jpg


    I then decided to try and induce some stress, even though it’s nowhere near real life stress. I used a 20 round mag. I sprinted from the target to the 50 yard mark, drew my gun, fired 5 shots. I then sprinted to the 25 yard mark and fired 5 more. I finished by sprinting to the 15 yard mark and shot 10 rounds.

    I ended up with 3 shots missing the silhouette and 4 other shots outside of the 8 inch circle:
    1OUhrfnl.jpg


    I ran all of this with my EDC set up. A Beretta Elite LTT in a Dale Fricke Archangel holster. It wasn’t perfect, but I learned a lot about what I’m capable of and how I can improve. So at this point I’d say yes, I’m comfortable engaging from 50 yards with my EDC if I had to do so.
     

    rhino

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    I know Coach loves it when I repeat my "good ol' days" stories . . . so here goes.

    Back in the mid 1990s at my first USPSA club (the now defunct Coal Creek Gun Club near Veedersburg), we had a pistol stage with 50 yard targets at almost every match. The largest of the three bays was a little over 50 yards deep, and we made use of it. Usually it would be Pepper Poppers or US Poppers, which was good because you knew for sure if you hit. I'm one of the stubborn people who would not continue to the next targets until all of the steel was down. US Poppers at 50 yards are a significant challenge for anyone.
     

    rhino

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    Bring it. :):

    Believe it or not, more than ten years ago, Massad Ayoob and some volunteers actually did it with varying epinephrine doses and compared their performance on some drills and stages. I do not recall the conclusions! They were also among the first to use stun guns on each other to both show how ineffective they are and to add stress to make the shooting challenge more difficult.
     

    DadSmith

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    I posted this in bwframe’s original post. It was my first time doing it and I loved it. It improved my speed and accuracy at 25 yards and in. I’ll be doing 50 yard shots from a cold start the next time out. We’ll see if the results change at all.

    I went to the range this morning and worked on accuracy at distance. I had never shot at 50 yards before so I started there. I did 5 rounds at a time.

    The first 5 rounds were high left. I realized I was holding too high and not focusing on my support hand grip enough. My second group of 5 was better with 4/5 hitting the silhouette.


    Here’s my 3rd group. 4/5 on target:
    ksZnzd9l.jpg


    Here’s my 4th group. 4/5 in the 8 inch circle, all on target:
    o0G4Kpil.jpg


    I then decided to try and induce some stress, even though it’s nowhere near real life stress. I used a 20 round mag. I sprinted from the target to the 50 yard mark, drew my gun, fired 5 shots. I then sprinted to the 25 yard mark and fired 5 more. I finished by sprinting to the 15 yard mark and shot 10 rounds.

    I ended up with 3 shots missing the silhouette and 4 other shots outside of the 8 inch circle:
    1OUhrfnl.jpg


    I ran all of this with my EDC set up. A Beretta Elite LTT in a Dale Fricke Archangel holster. It wasn’t perfect, but I learned a lot about what I’m capable of and how I can improve. So at this point I’d say yes, I’m comfortable engaging from 50 yards with my EDC if I had to do so.

    Nice. I got to busy yesterday will try today.
     

    tcecil88

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    I tried it a couple days ago @ 40 yards, which is the max range @ the Point Blank I go to. I got down on a knee and braced across the bench, which I felt was reasonable conditions in a store or larger restaurant. Standing I would try to brace off a wall or something similar. With a Gen 3 Glock 17 with suppressor sights and Federal Champion 115's, aiming at the face, I was making upper chest shots, around a 10 inch group. ( I know, I suck). I don't know that I have ever shot that far with a 9mm before. Definitely an eye opener as I don't think that I could do that on the move or off hand. Best case is suppressive fire at that point.
     

    natdscott

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    Though it is probably relevant to question if an attorney would be able to justify your 'defensive' shooting at "half a football field away"....which is EXACTLY how the jury would hear it from the prosecutor.
     

    DadSmith

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    Well I got to shoot today. I can hit a 12"x16" target 5 out of 5 with something to lay or lean my pistol against. Standing I was able to only hit 2 out of 5. Ammo used was Brown Bear 115gr FMJ Got a free box from friend wanted me to try them out;)

    Pistol used was a Canik TP9DA 9mm love it.
    View attachment 79117
    50 Yards off rest
    View attachment 79116
    Ammo Used Brown Bear 115gr FMJ. Love free ammo...
    View attachment 79118
    50 yards standing. One second between shots to add a little stress to it. Got 2 hits beside each other the other 3 went high.
    View attachment 79119
    TP9DA Love this pistol.
    View attachment 79120
    10 yards rapid fire 5 shots.

    I did find out my pistol shoots low at 50 yards so had to aim higher.At least the Brown bear was shooting low.
     
    Last edited:

    1nderbeard

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    Though it is probably relevant to question if an attorney would be able to justify your 'defensive' shooting at "half a football field away"....which is EXACTLY how the jury would hear it from the prosecutor.

    Yeah this is why I wouldn't engage out that far. Even in an active shooter situation my mindset is going to be getting out, not necessarily engaging unless the target is within 25 yards.
     

    2A-Hoosier23

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    Yeah this is why I wouldn't engage out that far. Even in an active shooter situation my mindset is going to be getting out, not necessarily engaging unless the target is within 25 yards.

    This is a moral decision for us all to make, but in my case... mass shooter in my immediate vicinity = jury/trial be damned, I am armed and I have more capability than the innocent unarmed to deal with the threat. I will do what I can to take them down. That being said, I don't have people dependent on me (yet). Maybe that changes when I have a couple kids running around, only time will tell.
     

    churchmouse

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    Yeah this is why I wouldn't engage out that far. Even in an active shooter situation my mindset is going to be getting out, not necessarily engaging unless the target is within 25 yards.

    Well, for me to see an active nutbag shooting into crowds of people and not at least try to stop him is just not in my nature. No knock on anyone or how they would react as we are all who we are but no way I would not at least try. Get the spouse down and under cover and yes I would take that shot. I am full well aware of what that shot involves. Used to run at least 4 mags at 50 every range trip. Not so much anymore with the steel bays set up at MCF&G but this thread will have me back on the main line next week getting that back on the list of available skill sets.
     

    DadSmith

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    Hey 1nderbeard
    In a Hypothetical situation where said shooter with rifle is gunning for you at 50 yards or so no chance to get out what then?

    I think a person should prepare for any situation they can possibly think of IMO.
     

    1nderbeard

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    Hey 1nderbeard
    In a Hypothetical situation where said shooter with rifle is gunning for you at 50 yards or so no chance to get out what then?

    I think a person should prepare for any situation they can possibly think of IMO.

    Of course in that (albeit unlikely) scenario I'd dump all my mags in to or in the general direction of the bad guy. I'd also be rapidly closing the distance so that his rifle advantage would be negated. I'm just saying in the limited training time and ammo I have I probably wouldn't train at that range.

    Also my decision not to engage at a distance where I'd be at such a tactical disadvantage rests in the fact I have four dependents at home relying on me. If I had no one as a few posts mention above, I'd feel the need to engage at whatever distance I could.
     

    DadSmith

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    Of course in that (albeit unlikely) scenario I'd dump all my mags in to or in the general direction of the bad guy. I'd also be rapidly closing the distance so that his rifle advantage would be negated. I'm just saying in the limited training time and ammo I have I probably wouldn't train at that range.

    Also my decision not to engage at a distance where I'd be at such a tactical disadvantage rests in the fact I have four dependents at home relying on me. If I had no one as a few posts mention above, I'd feel the need to engage at whatever distance I could.

    I ask because in the event say of El Paso shooter had an AK he was walking in moving forward and shooting whomever.

    I got to thinking what would I do if I was caught where the fish and or health products were. No emergency exits only way out is through the bad guy as he moves toward my position.

    If he has a high power rifle such as the AK47 them isles won't stop a round. As you said got to move towards him and take him out. If he's 50 yards away maybe try one or two well aimed shots maybe hit him and throw him off then head toward him.
     

    rhino

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    If an active murderer is in the process of methodically murdering people, whether or not my actions are legally defensible will not be a part of my thinking process in that moment. I will be deciding what actions I need to take to preserve the pachyderm and to maybe save some other people if I can. If the best choice in the moment is to put rounds into the threat from 50 or even 75 yards and that's a viable option, it's getting prioritized among the choices.

    This is not unlike shooting an active murderer in the back if you have the chance. There is nothing "wrong" with it and overall an example of good tactics if you are presented with the opportunity under such dire circumstances.
     
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